“Mommy, Daddy! There’s a monster under my-” *BLAAAAM*

oops…

I am all for right to bear arms, but this seems like a really bad idea…

Even I, as one of your larger-idiot-per-capita-conservatives was able to figure out pretty quickly how to operate, load, unload, fire, field-strip, and clean every military firearm I’ve touched without first consulting the manual, and, from the dozens of firearms I’ve owned and tens of thousands of rounds I’ve fired, I’ve never experienced a single negligent discharge.

I will hope that you, as a highly-trained Marine, would have better aim and better skill at handling your weapon under the stresses and chaos of combat than any of our enemies. But, it’s been my own experience that most ordinary people are much smarter and more competent than elitists give them credit for, and I’ve got very little concern about normal, every-day people of any nationality or political persuasion being able to handle their weapons with little-to-no trouble.

Are you actually serious? If you are you’re striking me as paranoid. The likelyhood of your country “turning” on you is so small it’s close to nill. Unless ofcourse you decide to become a criminal. I am not sure what you mean with your statement that government have always turned against it’s citizens. As a matter of fact i’s say there are very few democratic countries that has happened the last 100 years or so.
And even if that happens armed civilians would not be a deterrant against them doing what they wanted and unless you would be able to organize a massive force of civilians(and the likelyhood of that is very small) your resistance would most likely only lead to you being killed as you even if you have all the guns you’d like would stand no chance against trained troops.
The statement “Given the freedom and an excuse to do so, my government would as gladly rob, rape, imprison, torture, and murder my family and my people as any other government or criminal organization” leads me to believe you’re quite paranoid. There is no reason what so ever to believe such a thing and the fear of your government going dictatorship and the belief that citizens carrying guns is the only thing that’s preventing it(or that it would somehow discourage a possible dictator) is probably the most silly argument for liberal gun laws i have ever hear.

If the government goes fascist and declares martial law, its victims will have every motivation to fight, the government’s armies will have little motivation to do so. The government does have the training and equipment to eventually take what little my family has, but if I make it tough enough for them, then there is a chance they will look elsewhere or, better yet, not even try.

We don’t need to be strong enough to defeat them, just at least strong enough to discourage them.

The only difference is that the Swiss citizens answer to their government, and the U.S. government answers to me.

“So again i ask you what’s the reason for your guns?…. You have a massive Army and nuclear weapons too so you clearly don’t need an armed population to deter a possible invading force.” – Leffe

And when my government turns on me, who will defend me, if I will not defend myself? And governments have ALWAYS turned on their citizens – the United States government is no better, no purer, no holier than any other government in the history of the world. Given the freedom and an excuse to do so, my government would as gladly rob, rape, imprison, torture, and murder my family and my people as any other government or criminal organization (and under the veneer of civilisation, that is what any government really is.)

“So from my standpoint i still haven’t heard a single valid argument for your liberal gun laws. Btw i’m from Sweden and we have alot of guns too, i myself is a member of our version of militia(Hemvärnet as we call it) and have an automatic rifle issued to me. So as you probably understand i’m not against guns in general but i am against everyone being able to own/carry handguns as i don’t see any good reason for it.” – Leffe

Do what you please – and what your government permits you to – in your country: your government has granted you permission to carry its arms so long as you answer to it, and that’s fine with me so long as those arms are not pointed in my direction.

I see every reason for peaceful and law-abiding people to own and carry the best arms their money can buy, and I am completely for every law-abiding citizen in my state being able to keep and bear arms against any individual or organization that would use force against them.

idiot.

as for ‘philistine’ thats great you can look up all the problems going on in the UK… how about americas problems? like THEIR massive unemployment rate? or the incredible figure that says a fifth of americans cant locate the us on a map?

i’m not ripping into america. nothing against america. think youre just being very selective with information and ignorant in thinking youre country is without its own problems.

and as for MAGNAVOX, making guns legal doesnt stop ‘outlaws’ from getting a hold of guns, it just means theyre not called outlaws since its legal.

The Swiss are not only just given a gun either they are in militias and gets training and have to serve a sertain amount of time each year.The entire swiss community is wastly different than the American one and can thuss realy not be compared. As i’v stated on other posts crime is realy not dependant on guns but on the society. There is a clear link between social unequality/powerty and crime rates that have noting to do with guns. It is quite clear that the Swiss people also have a completely different mindset than the Americans and are taught social responsibility in a way Americans are not.

So again i ask you what’s the reason for your guns? The swiss have them to defend their country and because it’s such a small country in a place where the neighbouring countries has such a militant history it is clearly waranted due to the fact that their population is not big enough to have a professional army able to defend them. USA however is not at all in the same situation. You have a massive Army and nuclear weapons too so you clearly don’t need an armed population to deterr a possible invading force.

So from my standpoint i still haven’t heard a single valid argument for your liberal gun laws.
Btw i’m from Sweden and we have alot of guns too, i myself is a member of our version of militia(Hemvärnet as we call it) and have an automatic rifle issued to me. So as you probably understand i’m not against guns in general but i am against everyone being able to own/carry handguns as i don’t see any good reason for it.

Maybe being within arms reach of guns, knives, hammers, chainsaws, or any other tools instantly turns YOU into a red-eyed screaming ghoul, but I think I have more faith in the stability of the vast majority of the people I know.

Actually, I was rather under the impression that the reason was national defense: that guns were kept in the homes by Swiss militia members (almost all the adult males in Switzerland) because Switzerland is a rather difficult area to defend with a large standing army, due to Switzerland’s low population and difficult terrain. I seem to recall that Switzerland’s militia have been a rather effective deterrent to foreign invasion for a considerable part of Switzerland’s history, too.

Comment/Comedy Win.

1.) Re: Legality
Firearms, in many states are required to be under lock and key… and remain unloaded until such a time as they are being prepared for immediate use. (New York is extremely strict about their gun laws and California requires every firearm to have an approved locking device on them or be put into a locking gun safe.) In most states, this product would be illegal.

This gives us a “Legality Fail”.

2.) Re: Design
Hope you don’t move while you sleep, the rack doesn’t look to be designed that sturdily unless you’re a ‘bigger person’ or have lead for a mattress. If it’s not a metal rack to counterbalance the weight of a loaded shotgun, it’s plastic and has the high potential of breaking after a while of being slept on; even through a mattress. Oh! Let’s not forget the covers that ‘hide’ it… If you’re in a rush to get to it, who’s to say you don’t fumble on the grab because of your plush comforter in the way, or knock it off and out of reach because it isn’t a ‘secure’ holster for a shotgun; admittedly by “design”. (“The product is intended to act as a holster for a firearm at the user’s bedside and does not contain any safety devices or features to prevent accidental or intentional discharge of the firearm, nor is it designed to secure the firearm against use by unauthorized persons.”)

Hence, we can garner a “Design Fail” from all of this.

3.) Advertising Fail/Contradiction Win:
From their own Terms of Use page. You’ve seen the ad, you’ve read all the arguments for and against the product here. So what do they tell you on their site?
-”Follow all instructions. You could hurt yourself of die.”
-”Don’t shoot a firearm that it is still mounted in the product. You could hurt yourself or die.”
-”Don’t use this thing in a home with kids or mentally impaired people.” (Guess I can never drink then! Oh darn!)
-”Children are attracted to and can operate firearms.” (Like monkeys and bananas or cats and catnip, kids flock to guns and bullets, y’know. ;D)
-”Never keep firearms loaded until ready to use, always secure firearms with an appropriate locking device while storing to prevent unauthorized use, and store ammunition in a separate, secure place.” (Okay, so doesn’t that kinda sorta maybe defeat the *entire* purpose of me spending my $40 on your product?)
-”Never store a loaded firearm in the product.” (But wait. Then how do I shoot the robber climbing in my window? D: )
-”Never leave a firearm unattended in the product.”(Wait. Isn’t it technically ‘unattended’ if you’re asleep? O_o; )

4.) Warning Wins?
Oh c’mon, it says *right on the order screen* that you have to be “over 18 years of age to order” and that it’s “not intended for use in homes with children”! So just go ahead, order it, get a dog, and keep that shotgun handy for when those Left-Wing Nutjobs invade your bedroom at 2 in the morning!!

(If you actually go to that website, there’s an added Bonus:
“ALL RESIDENTS OF HOUSEHOLDS CONTAINING THE PRODUCT SHOULD BE MADE AWARE OF THE PRESENCE OF THE PRODUCT AND WARNED OF THE HAZARDS OF ITS MISUSE.”)

5.) Disclaimer Win/Fail?
Basically: “You agree, by buying this thing, that we’re not to blame for your own stupidity in handling this product. You will not expect us to give you any money or acknowledge you beyond shipping you this product. We’ve also covered our rears by wording this thing so that even if your drunken, fat cousin bounced on the bed and broke the frame of this thing that we hold the right to make you buy a new one in the future. THANK YOU FOR YOUR MONEY!”

6.) Name Wins!
Oh! Love the hyphen in the product name! So very classy! ;o Also that Company name, “Home BackUp Protection”. That means this entire thing isn’t meant to be your *primary* protection right? Do I get a bundle deal if I have a Broadview Security System to blare me awake first? What about my puppy that barks all hours of the night so I’d never hear someone coming in? I want that bundle! Pleeeease!?

“Some of you from outside the U.S. crack me up – you watch a few westerns and gangster movies and conclude that it’s nonstop bloodbath in the U.S. with people cowering indoors while bullets rain from the skies, and forget that what you see in movies is fantasy.”

Yes i am quite aware that it’s not that bad and doubt that many people actually belive that it’s like that(you never know though, after all there are some seriously stupid people in this world ) but fact is that your murder and violent crime rates are very high compared to most other countries with similar social wealth and development.

Guns most likely don’t effect crime rate either way by much but just changes the type of crime. For example what would be a murder by stabbing in a country with few guns would more likely be a shooting if guns are easily available.

Crime rates depend more on social situations(poverty etc.) and clearance rates probably factor in too.
Take a country like Japan, about 90% of all crimes reported are cleared and the conviction rate is higher than 90% too. So a criminal in Japan has very little chance to get away with burglary, robbery or murder. But in USA the clearance rates of murders was 62%. Burglary(by forced entry) 12.2 and robbery less then 30%(highest was robbery by strongarm 29,9% and lowest was robbery by firearms19,9%). Aggrevated assault varied from 63,2%(fists , feets) etc.)-38,6%(firearms) All the US statistics comes from the U.S. Department of Justice and are from the year 2005.

So in conclusion i’m not so sure if guns realy effect crime rates but i’m sertain it causes worse crimes(hard to do a massacre with a knife or by beating people to death) and it is obviously harder to defend yourself against guns than a knife or a fist etc(and more guns in society equals more guns in the hands of criminals). And looking at clearance rates it seems crimes commited with firearms have alot lower clearance rate, i don’t know why that is but it’s such a big difference in the clearance rates(on all types of crimes where there are statistics of guns involved or not) that it can not be coincidence.
So what was the advantage of all your guns again? None that i can see. Is there cases where people have been saved by guns? yes there is but does this outweigh the risk of criminals getting guns easier or the risk of accidents involving firearms? i seriously doubt it.

The folks in my neighborhood are armed to the teeth, but don’t feel the need to hide FROM a weapon or each other.

In fact, it’s actually extremely peaceful in my part of the U.S., and that’s just the way I like it. Why should I want to ban guns here?

Maybe it’s a bit wilder in the inner cities of the U.S. – I don’t know, I’ve never been there. But even so, those are areas where gun laws are strict. In any case, I know that I’m certainly not afraid to travel or do business or make friends or enjoy myself day-to-day in this part of the country.

Pick-up trucks with gun racks full of rifles are a normal sight here, and nobody thinks twice about it. A day at the shooting range is fun social outing with friends and family. Some of my co-workers have concealed-carry permits and wear loaded guns to work, and I’m not scared – I feel better knowing there’s someone there who can shoot back in the unlikely event that there’s ever a problem.

The only people I know who’ve ever shot at anyone have done so in wars; the only person I know of who has been shot at on U.S. soil was shot at while trying to break into someone’s house.

Some of you from outside the U.S. crack me up – you watch a few westerns and gangster movies and conclude that it’s nonstop bloodbath in the U.S. with people cowering indoors while bullets rain from the skies, and forget that what you see in movies is fantasy.

Though guns in my community outnumber cars, I think almost everyone in my community would agree that a drunk or careless person is more likely to injure us with a car than with a gun, whether they like guns or not. I don’t know any ordinary people who’ve been involved in shootings, but I know lots of people who’ve been in car accidents.

In my neighborhood, the ranks of people who are afraid of ordinary gun owners consist mostly of gun owners, government officials, and those who want to control what people think, say, and do, sort of like the guy elsewhere in this discussion who thinks it is unfortunate that he can’t prohibit thoughts he doesn’t like and disarm peaceful, law-abiding people. God bless Kentucky – I like living in a place where ordinary people are not afraid, but criminals and government are!

And also please beware of electrical wiring and appliances… the risk of accidental electrocution is just too great… and indoor plumbing could result in drowning… heating can result in carbon monoxide poisoning, carpeting or paper could catch fire, anything made of glass could cut you, as could kitchen knives… hammers or other solid objects could break in skulls!

And outside your apartment, the world gets even worse… there are these things called “rocks” and “sticks” that have been used to slaughter millions of innocent people since before the dawn of history!

Your neighbors drive cars that are powered by internal combustion engines that work by generating thousands of gasoline explosions in a typical trip to a grocery store, and generate poisonous gasses and loud ear-damaging noise!

Did I say “grocery store”? It’s full of strangers, some of them extremely strange and perhaps dangerous, and you will never know which ones! The shelves are stocked with sharp objects, foods that you might be allergic to, toxic poisons, heavy boxes, flammable liquids, glass jars, and worse!

On the way back in the door of your apartment, you might pass a disgruntled security guard whose wife left him and who missed one too many days of work lost his job and who has just cracked and brought his legally licensed gun to work and doesn’t care who he points it at.

I’m afraid to tell you this, but the world is a terrifying, dangerous place full of things that might result in your instant death at any moment… I don’t know if it is even possible to remove all of this danger from your life or beef up a government powerful enough to save us from all of it – but we must try! We MUST TRY.

“Uber-owners”? What does that even mean? Can you be an uber-owner of cookies, or video games, or Pez candy dispensers? What happens if you just rent the video game… do you become an “uber-renter”? Maybe you borrow a gun from someone on a hunting trip… would you be an “uber-borrower”? Does the “uber-owner” of the gun you borrowed become an “uber-lender”?

Wait – “unfortunately, there is no law that prohibits… thought…”? I love it when someone admits to wanting to pass laws to control thoughts! And people wonder why I insist that the people who want to ban guns are essentially dictatorial.

Maybe it’s a good thing the majority of gun-ban advocates don’t own guns

To be fair, though, that writer finds it unfortunate that “stupid thoughts” can’t be prohibited. Then again, it’s a matter of perspective… I think the term “uber-owner” and the idea of thought-prohibition are stupid thoughts, but, fortunately for that writer, people like me are too “stupid” to be in favor of prohibiting any thoughts we think are stupid.

There’s no law that requires me exercise due care when owning a firearm. Nor is there one that requires you to exercise due care when mowing your lawn, or use power tools, or screw in a lightbulb, or cook your food, or even write messages on a message board like this one – there are no laws which require due care when doing anything else that might result in you doing something stupid or even dangerous, unless you take action that puts someone into direct and immediate danger. Then laws such as those against assault, murder, terroristic threatening, libel, slander, reckless endagerment, and so on come into effect.

“If a society has no right to bear arms, less guns are around. That makes it less likely that criminals have guns.” – Arthur Eld

Why… because criminals who would have no problem with raping, murdering, dealing drugs, robbing, pillaging, and so on would at least respect gun laws?

Everywhere there are strict gun laws, there are still plenty of criminals who own guns, and all of those criminals are more powerful than their defenseless victims.

“You ignore the fact that most free nations don’t have the right to bear arms like the US has. Doesn’t change the fact that they’re free.” – Arthur Eld

Maybe there are other nations as free as the United States. Many of those nations have governments that are weaker than the people they govern, and in some of cases their citizens own guns (such as Britain until recently, or Switzerland.)

But when the governments of any of our countries decide to stop allowing their citizens to be free, the citizens of the United States have both the authority and the power to abolish the dictatorships. I don’t think the same thing could be said of most nations, including a lot of the “free” ones.

You do ofcourse realize that most murders are commited by someone who knows the victim and quite alot of it is domestic violence of some sort. Now add guns to this and you get a mess.

About the thing about everyone carrying a gun i’d just say that that would mean every bad guy would too. Do you think an addict wouldn’t rob to get his next fix? Ofc he would but now he’d shoot you dead the first thing he does because he knows you got a gun and wouldn’t take the chance of letting you use it.

While I realize this was uploaded for a few laughs, it has sparked a serious and complex conversation. Guns or not? For me, no. For you, maybe. But first ask what is the risk? What is the risk having guns in the house? Having guns not in a locked case of some sort? Having loaded guns (locked? not locked)? What is the risk keeping a loaded, unlocked gun by a bedside, easily knocked into by a sleepy adult or grabbed by a child? What, I ask just once more, is the risk?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8424836.stm?ls