FAIL Blog’s Top Ten FAIL Lists for 2009
Drum roll please! The votes have been tabulated and FAIL Blog has the official results for our first annual Top Ten Lists of the Biggest FAIL Moments, the Biggest FAIL People and the Most Epic FAIL Blog Videos and Pictures for 2009 as voted on by 100,000 FAILers. It was a year of many fails, but Kanye West won the grand prize of “King of Fail” for 2009.
Top 10 Most Memorable FAIL Moments of 2009:
1. Kanye West’s Outburst at the Video Music Awards 37%
2. Bolivian Newscast Airs “Lost” Scene as Flight 447’s Last Moments 13%
3. Richard Heene’s Balloon Boy Hoax 11%
4. Photo Opportunity for Air Force One Mistaken for Terrorist Attack 8%
5. Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich Tries to Sell Obama’s Senate Seat 7%
6. Northwest Flight to Minneapolis Overshoots Airport by 150 Miles 7%
7. Gordon Brown’s Hand Shake Fail 4%
8. Christian Bale’s Freak Out on Terminator Set 3%
9. South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford Affair with Argentinean 3%
10. White House Crashers Michaele and Tareq Salahi 2%
Top 10 Most Memorable FAIL People:
1. Kanye West 16%
2. Jon Gosselin 12%
3. Glenn Beck 12%
4. Perez Hilton 11%
5. Octomom Nadya Suleman 10%
6. Chris Brown 9%
7. Heidi Montag and Spencer Pratt 7%
8. Lindsay Lohan 7%
9. Carrie Prejean 5%
10. Roman Polanski 4%
Top 10 Most Memorable Videos and Photos on FAIL Blog
I’m surprised Tiger Woods isn’t on the list. He’s making Kanye look like an alter boy right now.
Whats the difference between Santa Clause and Tiger Woods??
.
.
.
.
Santa stops after 3 ho’s
WHY DIDN’T YOU PEOPLE PUT OBAMA ON THE LIST?! YOU PEOPLE ARE F***ING IDIOTS!!!!!
you are clearly confused. this is a list of fails. not greatest achievements. sorry man.
Omaba’s greatest acheivements? Like… what? Tripling the deficit? Oh yeah! Brilliant! Crawling in front of dictators? Wonderful! Getting a nobel piss prize? Woohoo! Nobel Peace Prize, now 50% off… like Scandinavia’s dignity. Oh wait, that’s even cheaper these days.
Barrack Obama should be King Barrack the First of Europistan (also known as the EUSSR). He’d love it there. All those good subjects. Barely any annoying citizens. Just stay away from the French. They tend to cut off people’s heads once they get angry.
Why no Al Gore on the list either? Global warming, ha! Biggest fail of the century. Tough luck Al. Your time of spreading BS is coming to and end. Here, have some CO2.
*applause* A fellow smart person! Yay! I thought I was alone on this post!
You? A smart person? Spare me
*spears queeny with wooden stake*
Yeah, I’d say global warming is biggest fail of the past century, not year. Obama’s greatest achievement is getting elected. Besides that he hasn’t done anything. Literally nothing. He said he was going to “change” healthcare but once he got into office everyone realized his plan was terrible.
Global warming is a myth! Over a period of a couple centuries, the earth cools, and then heats up extensively; the EPA hid the true data!
Yes, it is true that the climate changes. But the facts are that the climate change seen is far different from that in the past. It has grown hotter at a faster rate than ever before seen in any historical data including ice core data that shows co2 levels from millions of years ago.
wow, if i haven’t heard that from every single talking point from every single person that has ever talked about global warming. it’s this one piece of evidence that has held up the entire theory…..this and that one tree in siberia
You people are all wrong. The Earth is no more that 15,000 years old. No, scientists are not all-knowing. Yes, the co2 levels are going up, but no, they are not causing global warming!
shadowsplicer loves the dick
All you guys fail for making this political. ShadowSplicer especially, for starting it. for future reference, noone cares. ever. especially here.
have you seen the evidence? our carbon emissions are thinning our atmosphere, so more heat can get in. but all the pollution we’ve created won’t let that heat escape. however, that pollution is also blocking solar energy from coming in, meaning that global warming is a lot worse than you realize. if you saw what it is like in places where there isn’t enough pollution to shield them, you wouldn’t doubt that global warming is a real issue.
I think discussing politics on the internet should be one of 2009’s biggest fails.
WHY IS EVERYBODY ON THIS SITE SO FREAKING BLIND TO THE TRUTH?! GLOBAL WARMING IS A NOT A MYTH, IT RAISES THE TEMPERATURE A WHOLE 0.4 C EVERY 100 YEARS!!!! OMG WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!
Green House effect is myth? Child, do you understand how ice ages work? I suppose you think jesus was a real person and god made the universe 7 days, too, don’t you? XD ROFLMAO-SAMMICH!!!!
Hey…give Obama his 4 years to mess up like we’ve done every other president..i mean damn he’s only been in office for like 3 months…so everyone stfu and let a man breath for a minute without all you haters all up on his nuts. seriously…stop hating…its not becoming…
Littlestsurvior, Obama has been in office since Jan. of 2009, (around a year now) not for 3 months.
his plan is great accually, the rest of the world uses it and they seem to be doing fine, also the reason he cant do anything is cause of the lobiests in the government, they are against it and you know health care make 2.4 trillion dollars a year, its government funded and funded from your wallet, do some research first. also i congratulate you for being an asshole, and saying he didnt do anything, while him just becoming president is a bigger acheivement then your whole life so far, i bet you even liked bush. point is his policy is great, will it happen, probebly not
wow. you two are epic fails for being retards.
Why is it that people always choose to rant about liberals?
And seriously, crawling in front of dictators? Biggest fail of the century? I have only these to say:
a) Respect for humility seems to be sorely lacking in this crazy world of ours.
b) We’re not even 10 years into the century. Little early to be declaring biggest fails, don’t you think?
Actually, we should give credit where credit’s due, and Obama has really accomplished some amazing things:
1. Got elected to the most powerful executive position in the world, despite no prior executive experience, and in spite of harboring views polls show Americans almost universally disfavor. In other words, he had no qualifications for the job, and most people didn’t like what he stood for, and yet he still got the job. That’s pretty freakin’ amazing.
2. Has achieved the lowest approval rating of any US President within his first year, although in a way the joke’s on conservatives, since Reagan comes in a close second place on that list.
3. Has come closer to government healthcare than any other President. This is the long-term dream FDR and every subsequent liberal President has had for gaining a perpetual lock on future elections. If healthcare is passed, all a liberal candidate will have to do is say “The other guy will take away your government healthcare” and the other guy will lose. Why do you think we have Social Security and Medicare? You think it’s to help old people? Guess again, FDR knew what he was doing when he targeted the group with the highest percentage of active voters.
4. Has officially run the longest campaign of any Presidential candidate. It started in 2008, and hasn’t stopped since.
Clearly Departed….perfect post!
Erm… just to point out the obvious: Obama got elected. A majority voted for him, actually kind of a double-majority: Of states and in absolute numbers. If you want to talk about a president that wasn’t elected, try GWB’s first “election”.
Not nearly double in number of states or absolute numbers, only double in the Electoral College. Obama won 28 states and McCain won 22. Obama earned nearly 67 million votes while McCain earned over 58 millions votes. In total percentage, Obama was only voted for by 53% of the voters, meaning 47% of voters voted against Obama.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/
OK, you should go be an idiot somewhere else. Other than that Obambi only won 1.5% more than Bush did in 2004 doesn’t exactly make your point. And as for Bush’s first “election”, he won; both in the electoral college & three court-ordered recounts kinda put that “Bush stole the election!!!!” call of the retard to rest years ago…
maybe time to leave mommy’s basement, yeah?
1) because he is “black”
2) nadda
3) every “government service” ends up bankrupt (social security, postal service, medicare, medicade, fannie mae should i continue??)
4) that’s where all the money is going!!!!!
I would be more apt to take you seriously if you spelled Medicaid correctly.
Postal service is not government supported.
Postal is Goverment funded and your Failed Funded or short for FF. Just to tell you FAILED
Totally agree with you. Very well said! Why dont you have a talk show?
thanks..tell everyone stop riding Obama’s dick and let him do his damn job…seriously the man hasn’t been in office for a hot minute before all these people who probably didn’t vote for him, don’t like him, and don’t really know anything he stands for are criticizing him..i mean it wasn’t like Obama stepped in right after Clinton when shit was all good, NOPE he stepped in right after dumb ass bush when the US hit its rock bottom and now he’s gotta put us through rehab and shit to get us off Bush’s stupidity and keep us clean..not an easy job because apparently some people like being high of that dumb shit..come on people..even if you don’t like the man he is our president that means we need to support him and show him that we have faith in believe in him. I didn’t like bush but i supported him, because he is our leader, and if our leader makes a mistake then its on the whole country. So everyone piss and moan about Obama but this nation is only 25 percent black so we didn’t put him into office all by ourselves….just saying
And yet, Glen Beck is on this list, but why?
*crickets in the background*
It’s a trick question; no one knows the answer (other than that he’s a meal ol’ conservative).
Moron!
Hater’s gon’ hate!
Do you really want that idiot to be ‘emperor’ over you?! HE WOULD BE AS BAD AS HITLER!
epic fail for mountainbear. deal with it for three more years, buddy!
Obama’s greatest acheivement ? Like… not being George Bush. It was good enough for a nobel price anyway.
Worst acheivement ? Let’s keep that question for the year 2020 or 2050… history will be his judge…
I am sure you can do a better job at all of the above!
d*** republicans
d*** donkeys!
Oh….sorry…….I MEAN DEMOCRATS!
Wow man, where are you getting your information from? Your worldview is completely skewed, you forgot to rant about ZOG, the new world order and the UN. CO2’s retention of heat in the atmosphere is a proven physical law. The world’s weather systems are too complicated for the average person to understand, but there is change and it will mean mass relocation, loss of land, starvation for millions etc. A true global disaster, even if it does take 100 years to happen. I’m glad I don’t have the privilege of living in your ‘merica
You seem to be confused…SA was the first to have a Black president in a developing 1st/3rd world country. Obama was the after thought. Trust the Americans and the wanna be Americans.
More than two exclamation points – automatic fail.
You are
why are you ignorant? baffling.
no sir, you are…..you are
Racist! Racist! Racist!
When the guy was going to dive, but he hit the rail….I’m guessing he didn’t know you were supposed to press “Space” and hold “Up” To dive….
oh ha ha ha……… your joke should be on that list -.-…
What’s Tiger Woods Favorite Christmas Carol?
I’m Dreaming of a White Mistress…
lol u said ‘woods’
LMTO!
sorry “altar”… geesh!
did any of them died after the video? or is this question to old for them to die?
Tiger Woods shinanigans began to afloat as of last week, thats why he isn’t on the list.
Right……But it’s still 2009
tiger started the week at #10 but I think he’s all but destroyed Kanye for 1st place
Thet’s SHEnanigans actually–Haw Haw Hawwww
‘began to afloat’
typing from another system solar are you?
negative. celebrities/politicians/etc are always getting busted for cheating. how often do they go up on stage and interrupt a fellow artists acceptance speech? um, never.
So it’s OK to ruin the sanctity of marriage, but not OK to ruin the sanctity of a TV Awards Show?
Exactly!
i had the same idea:what a strange world
It’s the novelty of Kanye’s actions. Tiger Woods wasn’t so much “fail” as it was, I have to admit, quite pitiful and it was coming.
Think about that, next time you have a headache.
Failblog Fail list FAIL.
Tiger Woods should be numero uno
Exactly…..He should be right up there with kanye
He most definately is not making KW look like an alter boy. Think about this again.
Definitely Tiger Woods… Big failure.
Tom, I am absolutely surprised that Tiger Woods ddn’t make it on here as well~
yeahh!! first
damn it! lol
Ok. *clears throat*
IT BE DAMNED!
… then damned it will and forevermore shall be.
Maybe next time!
The faucet FAIL shouldn’t be on the top 10.
Faucet fails are so cliche.
I had a sinking feeling when I saw it.
What kind of drip votes for a faucet fail.
It’s all water under the bridge now, guess there’s no point in complaining.
Yeah, but water you gonna do?
I’ll stream and stream and stream until people pay attention to me.
You mist the boat on that one.
I sea what you did there.
Let’s face it, our act is all washed up.
The opinion on the act ebbs and flows. …
This is becoming draining….
you’re such a drip
U spelt satan wrong
the fat guy hitting the chain and the kid on the pogo stick looked like it hurt a lot… i laughed
I think it’s great that the pogo stick made it… because really anybody should be able to land that trick without even trying.
i think it’s a perfect top 10. except number 1, that should be my friend’s life!
Replace Beck with the Obama Administration, and I’d agree with that.
We preferred you when you stuck to writing “first!!!!!!!!!!!”.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH AdmiralSirJohn!! YOU OTHER PEOPLE MUST BE STUPID, BLIND, DEAF, AND DUMB!!!! F*CK OBAMA AND HIS WORSHIPERS!!!!
Bold and caps lock? Damn, there’s even a censored curse word thrown in. Can’t argue with that logic.
Yeah… but then you’d have to put S’error Palin among the fail people and her quit speech among the fail moments.
your less of a retard if you right first
You’re less of a retard if you spell “write’ right.
Agreed, don’t understand why Becks on the list in the first place.
Oh, that? Because he embodies everything that the Libs hate, is all. I mean, he’s a God-fearing *conservative!* And he’s *popular* because of it!
Some people have no shame.
…you haven’t ever actually listened to critiques of Beck, have you? I mean the actual critiques, not just people bitching about the fact that in a country that has the First Amendment right to free speech people dare criticize somebody.
It’s not just that he’s “everything libs hate”, it’s that he’s basically an attention whore who will say anything to get attention including, yes, self-contradicting himself (when he was on CNN he declared that the health care system needed reforming; after moving to Fox, he rails against health care reform). That, and his recent shilling for gold companies. And getting basic facts about the Constitution wrong (such as mistaking a section referring to slavery and monetary values of slaves as referring to immigration). And doing dumb things like not bothering to practice an acrostic before making it on the air and thus spelling “oligarchy” as “oligarhy” (look, I’m ADHD like Beck is, I’ve been there, it happens… but that’s exactly why I would have practiced it beforehand! To make sure it didn’t! That’s what rehearsals are *FOR*!).
Granted, “being an impulsive, ill-informed attention whore who will do or say anything for money and attention” is something that “liberals hate” but it has little if anything to do with the fact that he’s “conservative” or “God-fearing”. I’m pretty sure that many conservatives also hate silly, impulsive, ill-informed attention whores as well. And some of them, believe it or not, are not fond of Beck for exactly those reasons (yes, really. They do exist, even here in the South!).
I do think Beck’s silliness is old news though, and though he has had a number of amusing fails (I’m still lol’ing at the “oligarhy” incident, srsly), his novelty has started to wear off. IMO, Carrie Prejean should totally have ranked higher, because, come on… Beck’s just the IRL equivalent of a YouTube troll. Prejean, however, made her initial impact and fame based supposedly on her support for “conservative values”, only to have it come out that not only does she think the Bible somehow supports breast implants (! yes, really, Google it yourself, you’ll see)… she also made *8*, yes *8*, solo sex tapes. Which then got used as evidence against her in court where her mom was present!
If that’s not a hilariously novel fail, I don’t know what is!
Come on, only #9? Really? That’s just unfair. Give her her due glory, here.
Zoom-
You hear what you want to hear when it comes to Beck. He does not rail agains healthcare reform….he is for “reform” just not the “reform” bill in front of us….get YOUR facts straight and listen a bit closer.
He is far from a attention whore and welcomes “anyone” to prove him wrong. No one from the White House or where ever contacts him to prove him wrong…oh..other than mispelling a word or something small that doesn’t affect this countries future as a whole. That seems to be the stuff you are pointing out. Pick something important that he discusses like the people that surround the President and how they are all tied together in one form or another as marxists/socialists. Tap that info and Opine with some facts that prove him wrong.
Don’t come on here and slam a man who cares about this country and the people in it…even the haters. He does not claim to want anything but to be a sounding board and he knows he even puts his life in jeopardy to do it.
IF you don’t like him….fine…but come with facts to dispute the important issues if your gonna slam his credibility.
I watch all of the major news stations, CNN, Fox News, Ect…. and Beck seems to have the REAL facts! NOT JUST THE ONES OBAMA LOVERS WANT YOU TO HEAR!
All Beck does when he gets someone of a different opinion is yell over them and then say “thank you goodbye”. Look him up on youtube, he’s no journalist, has has no education and no business speaking about anything other than his past as a drunken loser. He is just one of many symptoms of what is wrong with the media these days. Getting information from him is like getting news from any militant right wing-nut on the web, it’s meaningless. I give Glenn Beck 6 months before he gets caught with a trannie hooker and a pound of coke and is kicked off the air for good.
To AdmiralSirJohnHolio
We’d like to replace Bleck. I mean Beck….
Aren’t top ten lists supposed to count down backwards?
FAIL!
p.s. I love you guys
Not biblically, I hope.
The Bible does not ever use “to love” as a stand-in or euphemism or synonym for “to have sex with.” The verb you’re looking for is “to know [someone],” i.e. “Abraham knew his wife.”
You FAIL scriptural word usage.
Why is Kanye West a bigger fail then Chris Brown? Tiger Woods or balloon boys parents? He didn’t (threaten to) kill anybody, didn’t beat anyone up, didn’t cheat on his wife, or lie to the public at large. Yes, what he did was tactless and juvenile but it was hardly the biggest fail of 2009…
I think this list is a FAIL for even allowing this nonsense to go on.
You Fail Failblog
They put the fails to vote. People voted.
Did you vote?
Popular opinion doesn’t always match your opinion. There was no scientific measurement of units of failure, there was no rubric for fairly and uniformly assigning level of failure, just people on the Internet selecting items in a poll.
It’s hardly worth getting upset about.
Failblog is not to blame for the results, but whoever thinks Kanye is a bigger fail than balloon boy really fails.
I guess it shows what people really care about these days.
Balloon hoax: Parents use their children (and teach them it’s OK to):
- Lie to millions of people through the media
- Fake a serious accident (you know, “don’t yell fire when there’s no fire”…)
- Lie to the police, firefighters and whatever other groups who are supposed to help people and as a result make them deploy important efforts and resources for nothing.
- Not to mention the legal trouble the parents got in and the consequences this had on their children, and just for publicity.
Kanye West:
- Was rude to another celebrity
Yeah, I guess I guess Kanye really is the worse one here.
Kanye fails cuz he’s an unmitigated asshat.
Didn’t catch the vote… (didn’t see it)
I’m not upset just asking a question and stating an opinion.
because emotions aren’t logical.
He is a Gay Fish.
I agree how long are you gonna prosecute kanye for that where is everyones forgives I feel like some people are like a black man that whistled at a white girl back in the 1960’s and was killed for it. Everyone deserves a second chance.
Yes, and you deserve a 2nd chance to post something comprehensible. Punctuation will help your case.
what is wrong with posting without punctuation it just makes it more fun for people to try to figure out what the *&%$ point you are trying to communicate I see no problem here chill
Whew. The internets need more commas! Fer sher.
I never heared of this guy lol
the faucet Fail isn’t a Fail, just turn it 90o right and its correct
I did not vote, I know I am too late to vote or nominate… but I am a little surprised that all of these lame T-shirt sales and ads on FailBlog did not make the top of the list. They are pretty much the reason why I will not buy a T-shirt ever again, and how not buying T-shirts any more has improved the quality of my wardrobe. If I have to fail, at least I will look good doing it.
The biggest FAIL of them all *by far*, is that you actually care about this meaningless shit!
If you cared for any of that, you’re a loser. Simple as that. Get a life!
Clap, clap, clap…
People that didn’t vote don’t have the right to bitch about who should have won the #1 FAIL of this year and make it a big deal… Voters, go ahead and bitch all you want bcz the board is all yours ahahaha!
I’d love to live in the world where your logic make’s sense.
It’s probably the same world where Kanye West is an even bigger menace to society than abusive boyfriends and neglectful, self absorbed parents. And the only opinions that matter are the one’s from people who vote on superficial polls about epic failure.
Sounds like paradise to me.
Why isn’t Obama #1 on the list? He’s going to be the number 1 fail president of all time. Nothing he does works, his economics are ass backward, and his propaganda is starting to wear off on the people. I could go on forever about his failure as a leader.
Wow…of all time, huh?
I’m not sure, but I think there was another one… who started an illegal war with 100.000+ casualties (mostly civilian)… who lead the US and the rest of the world into the worst financial crisis since the 1930s… who ruined America’s relatively good name by allowing torture, secret (torture) prisons, GuantanamoBagramAbuGhraib… I think that guy even wasn’t really elected the first time, his brother and friends assisted a fraud… didn’t he diminish America’s standing in the world massively? Whereas Obama, though being far from perfect and having done some things wrong, is at least trying to repair all that damage done?
Yeah, I think things are more like that.
Agreed. In fact things are not ‘more’ like that, they are TOTALLY like that.
HE IS TRYING TO RUIN OUR COUNTRY!! CAN’T YOU SEE THAT?!! YOU PEOPLE MUST BE STUPID, BLIND, DEAF, AND DUMB!!!! F*CK OBAMA AND HIS WORSHIPERS!!!! PRESIDENT BUSH AT LEAST TRIED TO HELP THE POOR IRAQIS FROM THE *MF* TERRORISTS!!! IF WE WERE THAT TERRORIZED COUNTRY, WOULDN’T WE WANT HELP??!!!
You are so crazy that not even a discussion-addict like me will reply seriously to you.
black people are fail
No, black people are not fail. Just “obama” is.
Does putting his name in quotation marks mean that you doubt that that’s his name? I wouldn’t be surprised…
I just stopped in for a peek, and already my head hurts! In less than one minute!
No, I just hate him that much.
5geg54g, you just became the biggest a**hole on the internet.
Congratulations. Now go make a private blog so we don’t have to read your racist sh**.
Oh, and all humans evolved in Africa, genius.
There is some doubt on that one these days now.
You sir, are wrong! Humans did not evolve you idiot!
ShadowSplicer, taking away the bold and caps lock would really help your point. A lot. Cause right now, it screams crazy troll.
“Trying”? Wait, what?
…dude, you can ruin a country without “trying”. I mean hell, all of the previous “Worst. President. Ever”s (Nixon, Hoover, etc.) certainly ruined the country without “trying” to.
Just sayin’.
hear, hear!
He’s trying to repair all that damage … by focusing on health care?
1. Fix health care
2. ???
3. Win!
AE – I’m happy to discuss your points. It seems to me that most, if not all, of your so-called “facts” are inaccurate or at least have the appropriate slant applied to enhance your point of view. But, I do appreciate your attempt to scrap the name calling.
Let’s start with what I think is an appropriate beginning point. You say Bush “wasn’t really elected”. Guess what – he really, really was elected. Florida is an odd state in that the majority of the state (central and southern) have a liberal political leaning while the panhandle of Northwest Florida (coincidentally where I was born and raised) has a more conservative tilt. On election night the media decided to call Florida for Gore before the polls had even closed in Northwest Florida (which is in a different time zone than the more liberal areas of the state). When we all woke up the next morning we were greeted with a bit of a mea culpa from the news media reporting that they had prematurely, and incorrectly, called Florida for Gore. I feel like We don’t have an established system for allowing candidates to “steal” elections b/c they have powerful contacts and the voting was close. It’s naive to think that’s the case and fall for somebody telling you “Bush stole the elections!”
Next we’ll tackle “who started an illegal war with 100,000+ casualties (mostly civilian)…”. Our representatives in DC voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq based on the information available at the time. Force (military invasion) was then used in Iraq to remove a brutal dictator from power. A brutal dictator BTW, who viciously executed thousands of the people of the country he ruled for whatever reason he chose (didn’t like ‘em?, didn’t like their branch of religion?, didn’t like that they didn’t like him?). This dictator was perceived to be a threat to the USA and it’s leader has shown he’s willing to invade his neighbors (e.g. Iran & Kuwait), but was certainly a threat to the people of his own country. As for civilian casualties, I am quite certain that the US military is NOT targeting civilians. Any service member that is, should, and surely will, be prosecuted within the military code of justice. War is hell. I won’t deny that. I’ll even give that perhaps we never should’ve gone to war with Iraq. But neither of us knows what the consequences of not going to war would’ve been. So, with the war in Iraq winding down now, I say thank God the people of that country now have a shot at living in a free society where they can work to achieve their dreams. Many fewer civilians would’ve perished in this war had 1) the civilians not been shooting at troops and/or 2) the militants not engaged in battles from civilian buildings (homes, mosques, schools).
Now, on to the financial crisis: The root cause of this crisis was the collapse of the housing bubble. A bubble, that was created by the US government pushing banks to make loans to people who could not afford the payments, and assuring lenders not to worry b/c good ol’ FannieMae (a Government Sponsored Enterprise) would buy those mortgages up and package them into securities to be sold to investors who will have no idea they are investing in a security that is doomed to failure. On this issue I would fault Bush for 1) not standing up to those who were pushing the banks to make the irresponsible loans and 2) because he actually believed he could/should abandon free-market principles to save the free-market system (i.e. sign TARP into law). But I wouldn’t go so far as to say he lead the way as you do.
And finally we have your idea that Bush ruined America’s relatively good name by allowing torture and secret torture prisons. Of the prisons you listed (Bagram, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo), none are “secret” nor are they established for the purpose of torture. The only real torture I can think of that our country permits/causes is when we take a prisoner to a country that does torture for the purposes of allowing the people of that country to torture the individual in an attempt to obtain information. This is called extraordinary rendition and the CIA was granted permission to exercise this practice in a presidential directive signed by President Bill Clinton in 1995 (that’s right…President Bush didn’t just wake up one day and come up with the idea). Beyond that our military/CIA personnel do not “torture”. They make life very uncomfortable for those being interrogated, but they do no lasting harm and the prisoners are in no real danger. I have no qualms with this practice. Nor do I find it irrational or in any way morally questionable to set up prisons to contain those you capture on the battle field. If we don’t hold those trying to kill us, they continue to try and kill us. It’s pretty much that simple. The acts of those service members who mistreated prisoners in Abu Ghraib were abhorrent (though I’m sure much less unpleasant than the torture perpetrated by Saddam’s goons when he was in power). It appears those incidents were thoroughly investigated by the branches of service involved, and those responsible were brought to justice under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, as they well should have been. But they do not justify your view that the point of these prisons was to secretly torture prisoners.
That felt good. And I don’t think I even called anybody a name!
Woohoo, a serious attempt to discuss! Thanks for that! Let’s go:
1. There weren’t only many irregularities during the 2000 election in Florida, but also prior to the election. I guess you heard about the list(s) of voters to be excluded being send to Florida or made there. I guess you also heard that there were many unexplained questions and numerous *ahem* mistakes, i.e. people weren’t allowed to vote for absolutely NO reason – coincidentally, the vast majority of excluded voters were believed to be in favour of the Dems. Since the official result today is 48.85% Bush and 48.84% Gore (or less than 600 votes) and the number of excluded voters was thousands… Well, you get the point. Oh, before I forget, Texas was sending long lists to Florida. Dunno about you, but all that (and I didn’t list everything that was strange in the 2000 election) would make me doubt any election, everywhere, even if it was my favourite politician who won (I would be happy about the result then, but remain silent when it comes to the question how the person won).
2. Even if you don’t care, it’s a fact: The Iraq war was illegal. The US is a founding member of the UN and the UN has clear rules for the legitimacy of wars – and the US signed those treaties. War is legal when a) a nation is attacked (not the case), b) an UN mandate is given (not the case) or c) if an attack is imminent (not the case). Under international jurisdiction the Iraq war was illegal. And just in case you don’t care for the UN and all that, imägine for a second Iran does the same thing the USA did. What would Americans say to that? Exactly.
You say Saddam was perceived to be a threat to the US – absolutely not. No-one ever claimed that he was able to attack the US. Even among all those lies about WMD and whatnot, nobody ever said he had ICBMs or aircraft carriers or whatever. How do you think he could’ve attacked the US? Send letter bombs?
Yeah, Saddam was disgusting, no doubt. So’s Mugabe, Kim Jong Ill and, unfortunately for the people who live there, many others, too. But we have an international rule called non-interference. It clearly has its downsides, but thus far it’s the law. And you broke it, setting an example for the rest of the world. Since Iraq it’s kinda hard to tell China or Russia why they shouldn’t do something similar. Thanks to Bush.
You see, the pretty common naivity of many Americans “we’re the good guys, we bring the good to the world, so if we break international laws, those laws were wrong” always makes me shake my head. Throughout history it was very rare that those starting wars felt that they were doing something wrong, and God is always on OUR side (no matter who “we” are; unless we’re communists
). I understand very well that it’s not a nice thought to see the own nation as the villains, but unfortunately the US became exactly that in Iraq. I too believe that the US military tries to avoid civilian casualties, but the fact remains: 100.000+ Iraqi civilians died from US bullets and bombs. Imägine 100.000 dead bodies piled up – that’s a pretty high pile. And your country is responsible for that.
Of course, I also don’t know what the situation would be like if you didn’t invade Iraq. Maybe Saddam would still rule his people with an iron fist, maybe they would have overthrown him. But one thing is absolutely certain: 100.000 Iraqi civilians wouldn’t have been killed by Americans. That many innocent dead people constitute a huge crime; and that fact is unchanged even if Iraq really turns out to be a free and peaceful democracy (which I hope).
3. Torture: There was a comma in my commant before I listed the prisons I know by name. No, they weren’t secret, but yes, you did torture there. Waterboarding is torture and so’s repeatedly slamming prisoners against walls, letting them freeze for hours and many other techniques used. In case you didn’t know: In WWII America sentenced Japanese soldiers to death, because they previously tortured imprisoned US soldiers – by waterboarding them. It is torture; redefining the word torture or inventing a new one like “enhanced interrogation technique” doesn’t change what it is. You ever heard the word “Sonderbehandlung”? Pretty much the same thing in one respect: Renaming something horrible to hide what it really is.
Oh, and those who committed those crimes in Abu Ghraib partially indeed had to face courts; but only those in the lowest rangs. Influences from way up the chain of command are known, but had no consequences.
Okay, now for the secret prisons: They existed. In Poland, Lithuania and other locations. People were also tortured there, by Americans. If you don’t know about those prisons here’s an early article about them: ht tp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/01/AR2005110101644.html
In case you don’t trust the Washington Post, google it. Do I need to point out that those were also illegal?
Now Guantanamo: You might not have a problem with it, international law has. If you capture POWs you have to treat them according to the Geneva convention, which clearly didn’t happen in Guantanamo. If they’re no POWs you have to treat them according to your laws, which clearly didn’t happen. There was a reason why they choose Cuba for that Lager, a place outside of the US jurisdiction. What you did was renaming the prisoners to “unlawful combattants” and then declare that what you’re doing with and to them is ok, because they are, well, unlawful combattants. See the pattern, like the redefinition of torture. And just to mention it: Several were released from Guantanamo because they were innocent. Some of them were imprisoned FOR YEARS before that.
Last: The financial crisis. For a long time, almost every US president followed a neoliberal agenda – deregulation, low taxes… you know what I mean. No doubt that Bush was pretty extreme in that respect and under his watch, after he deregulated some more, it all went haywire. He certainly isn’t the only guy responsible for what happened (and is happening), but he surely plays an important role in preparing the catastrophe (certainly not willingly!).
The veryveryvery last thing and then I’ll go to bed: I’m pretty sure that I can speak better for at least a part of the world than you. Not ’cause I’m the best educated guy in the world (certainly not), but because I live in Europe. And here the perception of the USA, Americans in general and BushCheneyRummy et al in particular was devastating. Anti-Americanism was the predominant emotion, even if it was fueled more by disappointment than by a general lack of sympathy (it was like that in my country). Bush hurted the good name of the USA like nobody did before. And the magnitude of his negative impact can only be fully measured if you take into consideration that after 9/11 the US had the highest rate of sympathy and even love EVER. From the highest mountain into the deepest and darkest valley in less than a year…
I hope I didn’t misspell too much, had a loooong day.
Good night.
Thank you, “Arthur.” You’ve provided a kindness to the world, in offering thoughtful, fact-centered comments on issues of real significance.
A very quick addition I’d offer to the election question — the above speaks of course to irregularities, but I’d also remind folks that in the U.S., we do not have a “true democracy.” The U.S. population does not in fact elect our president. The electoral college does. More U.S. citizens voted for Gore than for Bush in that election, but the way the system is set up, it took less than 600 votes for Bush to receive the electoral college votes of Florida, while nationwide 543,895 more U.S. individuals voted for Gore. I find that offensively undemocratic.
Explain “The electoral college” dave.
Thanks!
In our system every vote counts – but that means that we don’t have two partys in parliament but five (currently). That means coalitions are necessary. That means, after an election the partys have to bargain with each other. And that means that when we vote we don’t really know what our government’s policys will be like. Pretty undemocratic, too.
Dave – You’re absolutely right that in the US a person can get the majority of the popular vote and still not be elected president b/c of the way the electoral college system works (certain number of electoral college votes per state). I’ll even take your word on the fact that Gore had more votes from the polls since it makes no difference to me with concern to the legality of the election (not to mention I’ve got no reason to think you would make that up).
Although, it is a neat little US Gov’t lesson – I recall the discussion back when I was in college. The US is a representative republic. Nowhere in the constitution are the people given a right to vote for the president. The electoral college process is clearly spelled out in the constitution. Pure democracy is tyranny of the majority. This system was designed this way for a reason and has sustained this nation for over 200 years.
Arthur – I see you REALLY like a discussion. I don’t think
I’ll have the energy for too many of these things so hopefully
I’ll agree with you quite often, or find less darn comments on
FB that I feel strongly enough about to actually respond.
Stolen Elections: I will concede that I only give the elections
of 2000 as much credibility as I give any other Presidential
elections that have occurred in my lifetime in this country.
But, that’s a pretty high degree of credibility. I cannot
adhere to a theory that the electoral votes of Florida were
stolen via fraud. Certainly not due to “irregularities” that
were reported by those with a political cause, and never rose
to the level of criminal charges against any official as far as
I know. I didn’t even vote in 2000. I’ve only become interested
in politics since around 2002’sh.
Illegal war: So it’s illegal according to the UN eh? I suppose
they should pass a resolution against the actions taken and
we can wrap this thing up then right? It seems that is the action
that the UN is willing to take against other countries who don’t
abide by their direction. We’ll keep an eye out for that sternly
worded letter. You say it’s thanks to Bush that now many other
nations will feel emboldened to attack/invade at will. I say
that it’s thanks to the impotency of the UN. Conflicts exist
all over the world whether the UN approves of them or not. They
did before Bush and they will until this world ends. If you want
to believe that the US is the villain in Iraq that’s you’re call.
I certainly won’t. They sure didn’t treat us as villains that day
when we rolled into Baghdad.
Torture: I doubt this will shock you; but I beleive that waterboarding was justified when used. I would not consider the other techniques used torture. These interrogations were attempts to get information to save the lives of civilian US citizens from the next terror attack on US soil. As far as the US is concerned US law was obeyed. I suppose if the UN wants to draft another sternly worded letter to go along with the illegal war resolution they can do that.
I won’t call you a fibber for saying that the US tortures since you
define waterboarding as torture, and gosh darnit, US interrogators have waterboarded detainees. But to put it on Bush as if the CIA and other intelligence agencies around the globe haven’t been doing such things for years is silly.
You know what I just noticed? On the three items above you argue that illegal action was taken by Bush or those working on his behalf. And I think the lack of any sort of legal conviction of Bush (remember – he’s the evil one right?) or those supposedly working on his behalf in those instances really supports my side of the argument. I’ll let this comment cover gitmo as well. That’s a waaaaaaay complicated situation and your arguments have merit. I surely don’t want to hold some goat herder for his teenage years cus his goat wandered onto a battlefield. But again, I don’t think that is the intent. I feel for anybody who’s wrongly imprisoned.
Financial crisis: You attribute the crisis to a lack of regulation.
I attribute the failure to the government encouraging private lenders to make loans that never should’ve been made and assuring those private lenders that the GSE Fannie Mae would buy them up so the lender wouldn’t have to bother holding the loan (or the risk) and could make a quick buck on originations fees and the sale of the mortgage.
After midnight here now…off to bed. Don’t think me too much of a jerk for my lack of reverence for the UN!
AE…we know you don’t like Bush….we get it. Let me remind you that Obama’s halo and how he got elected is not that shiny. ACORN…ring a bell? There are so many questions surrounding all of this and YOU my friend will only hear the left leanings perception of it all in the news. Yes Obama was elected, but so far, that has not turned out to be a good thing. BTW his polls have dropped under 50% and continue to drop. His smile and his talent as an orator will not keep him going forever. That is exactly why he is still in campaign mode.
I liked Obama the very first time I saw him and heard him speak and I was hoping (way back when) he would get the nod over Hillary if they ended up being the last two standing. Have you heard the saying “be careful what you wish for”….well, I was wrong. I did not vote for him after seeing the people of his past…the lies he told to dismiss it all and the coverup by the media to keep it all hush hush. There are millions of dollars being spent to keep his past locked away for no one to see. (can you say Red Flag?)
I understand all your points and why you think the way you do. But you are no different than the left leaners here.
Saddam: If he was not perceived as a threat…why did the UN have so many resolutions against him. Bill Clinton and many others agreed he had WMD’s so Bush was not alone in that thinking. After 9/11 ignoring potential threats was not an option anymore. Clinton did not take his chance at Osama and look what happend. Bush and many others felt lets not make that same mistake twice. Saddam tried to play mind games and his bluff was called.
I agree with with the Iraq war then and still do now and i have a son that has served there 3 times, one of which he was involved in finding that criminal Saddam who, on his own, hundreds of thousands of his own people. Gosh he’ll be missed…sigh.
GITMO: First of all….the people we are fighting are not an organized military…they are terrorists and insurgents that hate Americans (Westerners..which also means you guys), period!! As far as I am concerned the Geneva Convention and all it stands for should have been thrown out the window in dealing with these terrorists, they never agreed to such rules and they sure don’t try to uphold them. They dont deserve anymore of a laws or justice that they gave our guys. Remember the beheadings, torture and being dragged thru the streets and hung in public not to mention other vile acts upon other soldiers and you moan about GITMO? I think what they have done would be considered against the Geneva Convention but you dont seem to mention that in your accusations. Trust me…they will wish they had GITMO after they find out the lack of cozyness they will find in our prisons. GITMO is Club Med and they are lucky on how they have been treated there in my book.
Next, I don’t think waterboarding is torture but I sure do think that puting people in blindfolds with masked terrorists behind them with machetes and automatic rifles threatening them of being beheaded is a bit over the top…dont you agree since that seemed to be their chosen mode of killing a captured soldier or contractor?
As for the economy…there are folks you don’t even know about and if you do, you dont mention, that are responsible for this. Does Barney Frank mean anything? ACORN…oops that pops up again! ACORN and their lot threatened banks with lawsuits on descrimination if they did not lend to poor folks. Barney and his buddies were part of that. We have been overrun with corruption on both sides and have street thug mentality. When things go wrong….fingers start being pointed to someone else to get the heat off of them. There are so many ethics violations against many Dem’s and a few Republicans…both groups need to be voted out for the most part. I am not saying Bush was perfect and made mistakes, but I know in my heart he cares for this country and the world regardless of what you think and I know he prayed for our safety and well being everynight. Obama on the other hand is to caught up in himself to be that deep emotionally.
As for the UN: They stink on ice! They are a joke, spineless and irrelevent when it comes to the world taking them seriously. Crap…I can write strong worded letters too and it would not cost the U.S. so much money to have that big building here and all the so called diplomats (some of which are our enemies and want us all dead) come here and not only expect but actually get celebrity treatment.
The UK is welcome to take the UN and house them in your country. They are a waste of land space here.
First of all, thank you for the changed tone in your comment. I appreciate that!
The long discussion up there^ is about Bush, not Obama. I know you don’t like him… I get it. You certainly don’t know which perceptions I hear, and I would appreciate it if you could accept that what I say is my opinion, not some sort of indoctrination that I’m just repeating. I take pride in the fact that I’m making up my own mind about things, and I always consider various sources before I do so. You’re right, by your standards I am a left-leaner. But I’d say nevermind about that. It doesn’t mean that I can’t be correct on some things, of course it also doesn’t protect me from being wrong. The same applies to you and every other right-leaner. About Bush, I try to approach things from an academic historicians perspective (which I am). I didn’t like him, true, but I didn’t like other politicians, too, but still say what I think they’ve done good. Unfortunately I can’t find too many things about Bush that I find agreeable.
As for Obama, thus far I’m disappointed by some things, too, although I assume that we’re disappointed by different things. But all in all I’d say that it’s way too early to judge him, he’s been in office for less than a year now. And just too clarify, of course I support everyone’s right to disagree with Obama and also to dislike him. I just have issues with the fundamental opposition campaign against him, especially whenever it leads people to demonize Obama (portraying him as Hitler and stuff like that). My general sympathy for Obama makes me dislike that, but also the thought about the inner stability of your country. Just look at this comment section: Someone says “Obama” with a positive connotation and immediately people shout “tries to ruin our country!!!!” just to get the reply “MORON!!!!”. Scary for the future of your country.
I’ll also reply to the comment above yours, so I won’t comment on each of your points about Iraq, Guantanamo et al, to avoid too much double postings. Just three things:
1. Of course, the terrorists and the Iraqi insurgents as well do not follow the Geneva convention (which you have indeed thrown overboard under Bush). That is why they’re called “terrorists” or “insurgents”. From a western democracy we have to expect different behaviour than from terrorists. You’re basically saying “they don’t follow the rules, why should we?” which puts your country on the same level as terrorists. I strongly disagree with that. When you give up the founding principles of your nation and the western world in general – what are you fighting for?
2. You say the UN is “irrelevent when it comes to the world taking them seriously”. Wrong. Clearly, you don’t, and I have heard others say similar things, too, but you’re not the world. However imperfect the UN is, it is the only existing international institution that can and does set international standards and laws. Apart from that, the UN is an American idea, and you signed international treaties. Even if you don’t like it anymore – pacta sunt servanda.
3. You say about Saddam “Gosh he’ll be missed…”. I feel that insinuates that you think that I don’t really get that he was a disgusting asshöle. But I do and I said so in a previous comment. If I just consider the fact that he’s dead now and ignore how that happened for a second, I can only say WOOHOO! He’s dead! Great! If I take everything into consideration my judgement is: It wasn’t worth that.
BTW – I’m not British.
@ Answer to AE:
Let me thank you for your comments. What I said in my comment to “OpinionChick” applies to you, too: I appreciate your opinion and the effort that you put into formulating it. Thanks!
1. I never called the 2000 election “stolen”. I do however think that the ammount of irregularities and their circumstances make it the most questionable US election that happened in my lifetime.
2. I already said it to OpinionChick: The UN is important and your nation signed treaties. Some of which you ignored and broke. That’s NOT how a civilized nation should act. Yes, the UN is imperfect (it is, among other reasons, because the US and other powerful nations want the UN to be weak). It’s still the only institution we got, and further weakening it doesn’t help it – or the world. If everyone would ignore international treaties and conventiones like the USA did, this world would be a much more dangerous place. Only the strong survive and all that. You know, we in Europe been there, done that, and it wasn’t a good idea.
3. Waterboarding wasn’t used for years before Bush came into office. For all we know, waterboarding and other torture techniques were introduced into American politics by the Bush administration. You don’t call it torture – I doubt you would say that if you were given that treatment. Please check out this: ht tp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUkj9pjx3H0 and take into consideration that this guy had suffered from that treatment for a very short period of time, just once and under generally nice conditions.
Just to point it out again: THE USA defined waterboarding as torture in WWII. And now it isn’t? Hmmm.
The last thing: That Bush, Cheney and others weren’t convicted in any way doesn’t mean they didn’t do things that would have justified a conviction. Politics are an important factor here; a lawsuit against the Bush administration would have further splitted the US society. I believe that’s the reason why Obama opposed prosecution of CIA agents that tortured prisoners. And, as I said before, I think that’s a mistake. An understandable mistake, but still a mistake.
… and yeah, I LOVE a good discussion!
AE: I love a good discussion too and I apologize for the UK assumption. Maybe you can enlighten me on what part of the world you are from.
I have seen the waterboarding video’s in the past and I still agree that in “some” circumstances that it should be used facing the type of world we face today and the dangers they represent. This will be an issue we agree to disaggree on.
Obama may have said “NO” to investigating the Bush Administration, but allowing his “people” to make the decision to put the terrorists on trial in our U.S. courts and not far from ground zero, plus allow them the same rights as I have as a citizen can and will allow them to delve into the past administration and even make privy information that should not even be seen by their eyes just for our countries security reasons. Just because Obama say’s “he” won’t start an investigation, does not mean he won’t allow it done in another fashion by someone else. It is all semantics and thinking in a literal sense.
You mentioned Obama has just been in office 1 year and basically he is being demonized. The issues below are what concern me.
1. He mentioned “Transparency” over and over again in his campaign, yet he has failed horribly in doing so. He said (and i am paraphrasing) that talks on the big issues would have everyone sitting down together on CSPAN so the “people” can see who is looking out for them. So far…not done.
Backroom deals are being made to “hurry” and pass a healthcare reform bill that (since you mentioned polls) a large majority of Americans do NOT want. Last poll I saw was in the 60 percentile that dont want this particular overhaul passed. It is not that most dont agree we need the healthcare system reformed, but this particular 2000+ bill that the Dems even admit have not read or it would be too difficult to understand, can be dangerous to enter into blindly. Ammendments are put in last minute and if this passes quickly and not correctly…it will affect our future for generations to come negatively. I see no reason to rush one of the biggest decisions in recent times and not have most everyone on board (Repub’s and Dem’s) as well as their constituents.
My concern is that Obama knows that if this does not pass and with his poll numbers dropping consistantly…he will not be able to get “his” agenda passed if changes come in the 2010 elections and he’ll be faced with no super-majority in the house and senate. Let me add one thought, Obama IS going to require (if this passes) people to buy insurance or be fined! That is unconstitutional here in the U.S. yet the Dem’s are allowing that to stay in the bill.
Next: I do not like the Czar’s he has appointed. Many of them are connected in one form or another with a VERY socialistic/marxcist background. Obama has made some of these Czar’s in charge of things Congress is supposed to be overseeing. Many of Obama’s “people” have very sketchy backgrounds that he dismisses it and whines at Fox News for even asking the hard questions. The administration has been told to come on at anytime and refute/prove the allegations as false. It has not happend. Also, we have the freedom of information act….Obama refuses to allow us to look into his past and as far as I am concerned, if you have nothing to hide..get it out there…let folks see it and move on. They still cannot find people at Harvard that knew him. That raises red flags with me if he is supposed to be trusted as my President.
Finally, the terrorists are using our own laws against us. They know we have “rules”….they don’t like us or our way of life, but they are willing to use our freedoms and laws to win their war with us. I am sorry but the political correctness and the bs these people are getting away with is insane. They need to be tried in military tribunals and not in civilian courts. If we are gonna talk Geneva Convention…then it is a military issue and the military should take the lead on prosecuting these people.
I look forward to hearing back from you.
I meant to ask you AE….out of curiousity, what are you dissappointed in when it comes to Obama?
You won’t like that…
He should have had key members of the Bush admin and CIA agents and military personnel prosecuted. Those who ordered and executed torture.
He should have forced a healthcare reform down your throats. It should have been done in his first, let’s say, six months in office.
He should press for strict international regulations of the financial markets, so what happened can not happen again. Unfortunately, the way it appears now, it WILL happen again.
He should make enviromental protection the number one topic of his presidency. I’m sure, if historicians look back at this time in 100 years, things like the Iraq war will be a footnote. Enviromental protection (rather lack thereof) will be the key issue. We won’t look too good in future history books…
No need to apologize; there are worse things imäginable than being mistaken as a Brit.
I’m German.
Yeah, we won’t find common ground about waterboarding. But it’s another discussion if people say “it IS torture, but we need to do that” than “it’s NOT torture”. I disagree on both statements, but at least the first one isn’t denying the undeniable.
I think it is a difference if Obama would use all his power to get Bush behind bars or if he says “I don’t want that”. It’s a policy, not only semantics.
I think it’s good that you say a healthcare reform is necessary. I don’t know all details about the proposition of the Obama administration, but in general I can fully accept people disagreeing with HOW it’s done, as long as they don’t disagree on that something needs to be done. If the Harvard study is correct (and it is one of the very best universities worldwide), 45.000 Americans die each year ’cause they’re uninsured. I think that is unacceptable for a rich, developed and civilized country like the USA – not one should die because of THAT.
I’m not familiar with the background of each and every person around Obama, but I highly doubt that there really is a “Marxist” among them. Not even we in Europe have too many Marxists left, and in your country – well, I’m sure you could pretty much count all real Marxists in your whole country on one hand.
The way I see it, “communist”, “fascist” or “Marxist” are propaganda slogans against members of the Obama administration. But they’re all capitalists, and compared to European standards, pretty right-wing capitalists. Seriously. As for socialism: Coming from a socialist continent, I think your country could use some socialism. Nowadays, socialism’s got nothing to do with anti-capitalism and it certainly isn’t the first step towards communism. Modern socialism actually works quite well for our ~700 million inhabitants.
Yes, terrorists try to use our laws against us. But I don’t think that this means we should change our laws. I’d say that would be a win for the terrorists, because they then would have changed us. I don’t think we should allow that to happen.
AE since you like to reasearch…here are some of the folks Obama has working for him:
http://www.obamasczars.com/Science_Czar__Eric_Holdren.html
Van Jones – who had to resign after finding out abt his background. BTW…he was just moved to another job for the government…I will add that later.
Van Jones:
Green Jobs Czar – Van Jones ** RESIGNED**SEPT 6, 2009
Title: Special Adviser for Green Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation at the White House Council on Environmental Quality
Salary: unknown
Reports to: Head of Council on Environmental Quality Nancy Sutley
Appointed: March 2009
Agency or department that might have handled similar issues: Environmental Protection Agency; Labor
• Will focus on environmentally-friendly employment within the administration and boost support for the idea nationwide
• Rose from near obscurity in the Oakland, Calif., grassroots organizing scene to the leader of a national movement to spur the green economy.
• Founded Green For All, an organization focused on creating green jobs in impoverished areas
• Also co-founder of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights and Color of Change, which includes Bay Area PoliceWatch, a group devoted to “protect[ing] the community from police misconduct”
• Published New York Times best-seller The Green Collar Economy: How One Solution Can Fix Our Two Biggest Problems, in October 2008
• Started career as a prison-reform advocate in Oakland, Calif., lobbying for reform of the juvenile justice system and youth-violence prevention programs
• Has law degree from Yale
• 2007: worked on the Green Jobs Act with then-Rep. Hilda Solis (D-Calif.), who co-sponsored the bill in the House
• 1993: was arrested at the Los Angeles riots that followed the acquittal of cops in the Rodney King beating. “I was arrested simply for being a police observer,” says Jones, who had just graduated from Yale Law School and was working with the Lawyer’s Committee for Civil Rights in San Francisco.
• 1999: was arrested in the 1999 Seattle protests against the World Trade Organization
• Excerpt from a Nov. 2005 interview in the East Bay Express:
Jones had planned to move to Washington, DC, and had already landed a job and an apartment there. But in jail, he said, “I met all these young radical people of color — I mean really radical, communists and anarchists. And it was, like, ‘This is what I need to be a part of.’” Although he already had a plane ticket, he decided to stay in San Francisco. “I spent the next ten years of my life working with a lot of those people I met in jail, trying to be a revolutionary.” In the months that followed, he let go of any lingering thoughts that he might fit in with the status quo. “I was a rowdy nationalist on April 28th, and then the verdicts came down on April 29th,” he said. “By August, I was a communist.” In 1994, the young activists formed a socialist collective, Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement, or STORM, which held study groups on the theories of Marx and Lenin and dreamed of a multiracial socialist utopia. They protested police brutality and got arrested for crashing through police barricades. In 1996, Jones decided to launch his own operation, which he named the Ella Baker Center after an unsung hero of the civil-rights movement.
AE….I WILL BE ADDING MORE SHORTLY
Subprime proof banks manipulated and forced to lend..obama admits being apart of it with ACORN.
Well, I’m not really shocked. This van Jones joined a communist group when he was a student and after he witnessed pretty bad stuff. We have a saying here: If you’re not a communist when you’re 17, you have no heart. If you’re still a communist when you’re 25, you have no brain.
Since then he apparently focussed on the enviroment, and that’s something I can agree on.
Eric Holdren seems to be a respected professor at one of your best universities, who has discussed population growth control in a book in 1977. So?
I already knew about the Clinton admin’s share in the housing bubble. I never said ONLY Bush is to blame, even though he had plenty of time to repair the damage done in the late 1990s. Apart from that, the burst of the bubble was just one of many aspects that lead into the crisis.
BTW – the links you provided lead to sites that clearly followed an agenda. I googled the person’s names after I read those sites and looked for less biased sites, like Wiki and others. In general I’d suggest you should do the same thing, I find it to be helpful to also consider sources that don’t reflect the previously existing viewpoint. If you only read and trust those sources – your views will never be challenged and you will get the impression that EVERY reasonable person HAS to see it like you do.
I have the feeling that your first replies to me were fueled by that. No offense intended.
WHOA ARTHUR! I think I’ll have to take a vacation to read all that!
AE:
I do read Wiki as well. I had actually had other videos but they were not posted regarding Iraq and WMD support from the Dems. I am gonna try it again since your allegations Bush basically went rogue on Iraq.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwqh4wQPoQk
Basically, but Dems and Republicans need to take a good look at themselves. Neither are making big points with the American People.
Since you like Google…look these names up and read up on their relationships with Obama and things they have said. Now wiki does not cover it all so check around and see what you think.
Jeramiah Wright
William Ayers
Anita Dunn
ACORN and SEIU corruption/gov’t funded/Obama supporters during campaign
I guess being here in the U.S. I have more insight to what is going on here and what stories are out there. I don’t know what all your sources are beyond the internet but it is definately a split here in the U.S. The mainstream media finds no wrong in Obama and Fox News Channel has both sides of the isle represented and sometimes dont say good things about the administration and praise them when praise is due. I try to get both sides of the story if I can but some stuff is so blantent here…it is mind boggling.
I realize some of the sites are biased with the videos but video/audio of people saying things in their own words is just fact regardless of the source.
I can go to one site and see information and another site that won’t mention anything. Great example is the well over 1 million people that marched on Washington a few months back against the Healtcare Plan. Fox covered it and IF any other media covered it…they took their small article from the AP. How can over a million folks filling up the Washington Mall not be news? It is hard to find any mainstream media that is in the middle these days.
Yes, what people say is what they say, no matter who presents it.
I realize that America has mostly biased media, especially on TV. That’s a sad and dangerous thing, I think. Luckily, we have a completely different structure on TV. Not one channel follows a clear agenda. Even though disgusting and outrageous things happen here, too, it’s less often and far less bad than what I see on US TV.
I heard about Ayers and Wright, know what they did and said, and I heard clear dissociation to them by Obama. But, you see, I’m not a lawyer on behalf of Obama or the Dems or whoever. I think I pretty clearly criticized them for some things (even if that were different things than right-leaning Americans criticize them for).
You will not convince me that Obama is a secret communist. I heard what he has to say, I witnessed his actions as president thus far – from what I know about him and his policies to “comrade Obama” is a looooong way…
As I said before, I think it is absolutely okay to oppose Obama’s policies. What I would like is if people could discuss that rationally, like we’re just doing. But sadly name calling seems to be America’s prefered method to deal with differences in opinion lately. I studied history and unfortunately I know a lot about extremely polarized nations. My own country had that more than once. It didn’t turned out to be good.
So, continue to oppose where you feel the need to oppose, but please don’t oppose just because it’s Obama or the Dems who propose something. If you’re going to a demonstration against healthcare, shout “WE DON’T WANT IT!” as much as you like, but confront the guy next to you who carrys a picture with Adolf Obama on it. You get my point? You Americans NEED to calm down and not be hysterically for or against Obama.
Thank you for the conversation.
AE:
Obama has “clearly disassociated himself” with EVERY questionable person or entity that has been brought up. Just because he says he was not involved with those folks does not make it so. He sat for 20 years in Rev. Wrights church and Rev. Wright married he and Michelle as well.
Second, let me clear up something. The people that marched on Washington….were calm, did not cause a disturbance on any level and I think 1 person out of the 1 million and a half people showed up with a adolf Obama symbol. Now bush was constantly put in that light but maybe that is ok with you. Do you realize when the people (Dems, Republicans and Libertarians) marched on Wash….there was not one arrest made by police. No reason to ask us to calm down….those people did not get out of control one bit. It is rare to see a protest that does not have one arrest with that many folks.
Let me add…I dont oppose Obama cuz he is Obama nor do I oppose Dem’s because they are dems. I have voted independant in the past and I would vote for a Dem if I felt they were the right person for the job. Time will tell on Obama but it is not just Republicans that are upset with him….people that voted for him are backing away from supporting his agenda. There is alot more to it than I think you realize.
(you did not comment on the WMD video from my post. I was curious as to your take on it)
Thank you as well for the conversation.
Just a quick reply, I have another long post to answer V
You misunderstood me. I didn’t mean calm as in “Don’t vandalize in the streets and shoot eachother”, but calm as in “talk civilized and respectful”. Guys like that ShadowSplicer somewhere up there^ don’t; and I feel as if their number is growing. And I have seen pictures on demonstrations where Obama is portrayed as Hitler, not sure if there were also a Mao and a Stalin. Stuff like that crosses the line for me.
Oh, and I forgot: As far as I know Obama never said he didn’t know Ayers or Wright, but he said they won’t have any influence on his decisions as president.
…and no, it also wasn’t okay for me when Bush was portrayed as Hitler.
I feel like the Spanish Inquisition…
Arthur – now I’m more interested in your conversation with Opinion Chick than with our own. I think I’ll have to post a brief reply to that conversation as well. But first:
1. 2000 elections (see – I removed stolen for ya): Question away. The rule of law prevailed. Bush was the president for the next 8 years (which required that he be elected AGAIN). And now he’s retired to a ranch in Texas. God bless him. It’s dishonest to state as a supposed fact that the man was not elected president of the United States.
2. Started about illegal war – morphed into a discussion about the UN: You say it’s illegal b/c the UN didn’t authorize the war. I say have the UN send us that nasty letter like they do when other countries take actions of which they do not approve and let’s move on. As for me, I say the senate of my sovereign nation voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq. Force was subsequently legally used.
3. Torture: As does Opinion Chick, I feel the use of water boarding, in the RARE circumstances in which it was used was justified. If you want to decry the US as a nation of torture or Bush as some goon who gets his jollies from torture, again it’s just not an intellectually honest argument. A few CIA agents decide to water board a small number of high value detainees very few times in an effort to obtain information to save the lives of who knows how many civilian Americans. Would it be more just of the US to allow these terrorist to sit comfortably in a climate controlled environment while their cohorts execute further plans to kill American civilians? When faced with the decision between 1) pouring water over the face of a terrorist so he THINKS he is drowning or 2) allowing more planes to fly into buildings in my country so that the captured terrorist isn’t caused any discomfort, I choose pouring water over the face of the sorry SOB plotting to murder civilians.
And that’s thousands of lives. What if the situation was you and a terrorist? The terrorist has buried your wife somewhere and she has enough air to live for 8 hours. Would you be willing to make that man THINK he’s drowning in order to save the life of your wife (substitute mother, father, sibling as needed)?
As for your comment that the fact that they weren’t convicted doesn’t mean they didn’t break the law, could we at least get a strongly worded letter from the UN to back up your claim?
I think we’ve both made some decent points but are doomed not to agree on most of this. I appreciate your perspective. And you certainly have every right to hate President Bush. I’m just disappointed in how folks want to demonize this man. I believe with all of my heart that he acted with the best interest of our country and our servicemen in mind.
Now I’m excited about jumping into the other conversation with Opinion Chick.
I’ll try to keep it short – I doubt it’ll work.
1. GWB was the president of the USA. Your courts ruled and that’s that. But – your courts HAD to decide. That usually doesn’t happen after an unquestionable election. Can we agree on that?
2. I never said the war was illegal under US law. You never disputed that it was illegal under international laws. Agreed?
3. “RARE circumstances”: Chalid Mohammed alone was waterboarded more than 180 times. Rare?
“Bush as some goon who gets his jollies from torture”: I never said that. He was top in the chain of command, hence responsible. Dunno if he enjoyed what happened, and frankly, I don’t care.
“Not an intellectually honest argument”: I, just like your nation before and after Bush, call waterboarding torture. Therefore the above statement IS intellectually honest. You just happen to not agree with the premises. It would be dishonest to say Bush “gets his jollies from torture”, because, s.a., I don’t know. But I never said that. I said the US tortured during his time in office.
“A few CIA agents decide to water board…”: No. Bush and Cheney decided and Cheney still defends that decision publicly. ht tp://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/04/washington/04interrogate.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&hp
Furthermore, Bush vetoed a law which would have prohibited waterboarding and other techniques used (March 2008). THEY are responsible, not some CIA officer in the field.
“Would it be more just of the US…”: Is it more just to torture? Why?
“When faced with the decision between…”: The people your country waterboarded are in their prison cells for quite some time. After some time they most certainly don’t know anything about imminent threats. If you take the structure of Al Qaida into consideration it generally is relatively unlikely that even top members know about imminent threats (small cells acting on their own…). Your torturer surely ask questions about financing, contact lines, cells, weapons, explosives and so on. I admit, it’s just a guess, but I’d say a reasonable one.
“The terrorist has buried your wife…”: Now that is intellectually dishonest. Nations don’t act like individuals, nor should they. It’s one thing if I punch a guy in the face who calls me asshöle; it’s something completely different when, let’s say, Pakistan punches India in the face for an insult.
No. You will not get a stern UN letter. Your nation is too powerful (and security council member).
I don’t hate Bush. In fact, I hate no-one in the moment. I see him as a horrible president with a toxic record – I think I’ve said enough about that. But that’s not hate.
If you try my shoes for a minute and accept my premises and arguments, you can hardly say I “demonize” Bush. From my perspective he WAS the villain and I describe him as such. You can and do differ in opinion; but you can’t deny that I have arguments to back up my claim.
Among my friends I’m an exception: I too believe he “acted with the best interest of (y)our country and (y)our servicemen in mind”. He just failed, massively and repeatedly.
Arthur,
1. Sure – we can agree on that.
2. Agreed.
3. The “180 times” bit reported was a bit inaccurate but once folks get a hold of a tid bit like that they just repeat it over and over until it’s true to them. That figure is actually the number of times water was poured rather than the number of “sessions” of water boarding as it were. I believe there were 3 sessions (so he got water poured on his face about 60 times each). So yup, I’ll stick with my assertion that the technique was rarely used. When KSM was water boarded he had information regarding a planned second wave of attacks that was to occur on the west coast and was essentially telling his interrogators that they would soon see what he knew. So they certainly had reason to believe that he had information that could be used to prevent further civilian deaths in the US.
I’m disappointed that you find my analogy intellectually dishonest. I feel that principles apply to individuals much the same as they do to nations (or leaders of nations).
Merry Christmas!
That’s a lot of pouring. Did you check the Youtube link I provided somewhere up there^? As I said, that was only once, shortly and under generally nice conditions. And you wouldn’t call 60 times on one “session” torture?
It’s very saddening to see a fellow westerner disagree with basic human rights that much.
Yes, nations and individuals both follow principles. The lack of honesty in your analogy is the different situation for a person whose whole existence is threatened and a nation which at worst might lose some of its citizens in a terrorist attack. You wouldn’t insinuate that terrorists could destroy your whole nation, would you? See – THAT is ONE difference.
Furthermore, it is one thing if a person in an extreme situation breaks his own principles to survive or to assure survival of a loved one. It’s something different if a nation which is NOT under a similar threat does the same thing.
Even if a nation is under a compareable threat, acting out of anger, hatred and fear isn’t what its leaders can afford to do. Just think about the Cuba crisis – we wouldn’t be talking today if the USA or the USSR acted based upon anger, panic or hate. They didn’t, even though the threat back then was much bigger than it is today.
There are some things a western democracy simply shouldn’t do. That is why you DON’T do everything to prevent another terrorist attack on US soil. You didn’t become an Orwell-like dictature, even though your government could protect you better if they knew all there is to know about the US population and all visitors. You didn’t simply nuke Afghanistan (and Pakistan), even though that certainly would have killed more terrorists than the actions your nation has taken. Israel also doesn’t simply nuke Iranian nuclear facilities – and so on and so forth.
You didn’t do those and other things imäginable, because these are things the USA simply doesn’t do. It would destroy your nation as it is today and as you want it to be if you did.
Torturing imprisoned persons and hence breaking treaties your nation signed free willingly, also breaking with founding principles (human rights) of not only your nation but the western world in general is one of these things which could destroy your nation – from within. Yet you defend torture, because you assume the results of torture protect your nation. You do not grant human rights to everyone, you exclude assumed terrorists.
Although we talked politely I have to say that this disgusts me. I’m quite sure that you wouldn’t want every nation to do as your nation did – I certainly don’t, because this world would be a far more dangerous place. The west cannot afford to see its basic principles such as human rights as a variable which only apply on one day or just to some people. We would be hypocritical bastards whose beliefs aren’t worth anything, because even we don’t follow them.
I’m very glad that your current president doesn’t see things your way.
AE:
Ok…I have to address a few comments you made. Here we go…
You said:
“Yes, nations and individuals both follow principles. The lack of honesty in your analogy is the different situation for a person whose whole existence is threatened and a nation which at worst might lose some of its citizens in a terrorist attack. You wouldn’t insinuate that terrorists could destroy your whole nation, would you? See – THAT is ONE difference.”
My answer: Yes…alot of us do FEEL, not insinuate, that terrorists could destroy our whole nation. That is their goal…have you not seen their videos “death to America”…do you think that means “we are just gonna tease you”?
They are slowly infiltrating into our society, sleeper cells just waiting for the time to come out and do their job for their cause.
You said:
“Torturing imprisoned persons and hence breaking treaties your nation signed free willingly, also breaking with founding principles (human rights) of not only your nation but the western world in general is one of these things which could destroy your nation – from within. Yet you defend torture, because you assume the results of torture protect your nation. You do not grant human rights to everyone, you exclude assumed terrorists.”
My Answer: At the moment our country is giving terrorists the same Constitutional rights to trial as our citizens! The military should be handling this with tribunals for God’s sake. The terrorists ARE getting better treatment than they deserve. As far as treaties go…you follow treaties with “countries” that also signed them. These “terrorists” are not countries….they are individuals from everywhere. Treaties do not apply in my opinion. Basic human rights…are you kidding me? These animals are being treated better than people they capture.
AE…how many times have you watched the video of the Twin Towers fall? How many of the documentaries have you watched? How many times did you watch people opt to jump to their deaths from over 100 stories? How many times have you heard the desperate voice mails and calls made by people stuck with no where to go knowing they are going to die? How many times have you taken to let that sink in? Does it affect your soul as much as ours since it was not in your country? Well it affects ours and it changed how we deal with a whole new type of enemy. An enemy that is not seen, has no uniform and can take on many looks and personalities.
Don’t lecture us on how we decide to protect our country and our people. We have a democracy and have enough debate as it is here. I can tell you…more than not do NOT want to experience that again and our ways of getting information has foiled several big plots against big cities potentially saving thousands of people.
Personally…I don’t care anymore what the world thinks about us. I know we have good people here. We are the first to help out any country that needs it. We are the most charitable country in the world, we are the first other countries look to when they are in trouble…..I can go on and on.
If the world wants to hate us for waterboarding a few people…then so be it. You worry about your country and we will worry about ours. The extremists want our country, your country and any other western civilized country they can get their hands on and they don’t want you alive and in thier way.
Again we will dissagree with these subjects but I am willing to take my beliefs to the grave and allow the Good Lord to judge me as he is the only one that counts.
Give me one at least slightly possible scenario how terrorists can actually destroy the US. The only one I can think of is if the amorph threat of terrorism makes Americans change their nation’s principles. Apparently I have way more faith in the stability of your nation under threat than you have.
I said it before and I doubt you will understand it this time. But still, I have to try it one last time:
It does NOT matter what your enemies are doing, you have to follow your nation’s principles. Otherwise it would have been okay to send Germans into US concentration camps and gas chambers during WWII – because they did the same thing. If you don’t follow your principles you’re showing the world what they’re worth. Under Bush not much, apparently.
Your argument about human rights not applying to terrorists as they’re not a nation, is totally wrong. The first sentence of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is “All human beings are created free and equal in dignity and rights”. ALL HUMAN BEINGS. Not citizens of specific nations – everyone, always, everywhere. A western nation like the USA has to protect human rights, not violate them. THAT IS WHAT DISTINGUISHES THE USA FROM TERRORISTS. Is that really that hard to understand?
I will not reply to your “question” about my perception of 9/11, because your insinuation that I apparently didn’t care enough is insulting.
“Lecture us…” – since we’re talking about events of the past I’d call what I do analysis and judgement, but whatever. Rest assured that I will continue to speak my mind, whether you like it or not. And BTW – you personally obviously need some lecturing, since you don’t even know basics about human rights, international laws and the genesis of the modern western civilization in distinction to the Middle Ages. Your nation in general is now acting differently, hence lecturing isn’t necessary.
Two things and then I’ll stop:
1. It’s kinda funny that you say that your nation brings so much good to the world and then continue to say how you don’t care what the world thinks about you. Just saying.
2. You called assumed terrorists “animals”. Maybe you heard about it – we Germans used to call Slavics and Jews “Untermenschen” (~ sub-humans). Two different words which lead to the same conclusions: They’re dangerous. They’re not worth as much we are. We can treat them however we please. Well, we Germans committed the worst crime in human history based upon the same beliefs about our “enemies” that you just stated. Way to go.
@Arthur – you’re pretty much an idiot. Especially since Obama hasn’t closed Guantanamo, hasn’t stopped the “evil illegal” war, PROBABLY hasn’t stopped torture, definitely hasn’t stopped CIA airstrikes in countries we’re not at war with, bowed to Saudi thugs but not the queen of our closest ally, quadrupled Bush’s worst deficit, and is pretty much tone deaf to the mood of the country?
Still, you’re right, Obama doesn’t deserve it this year. Save it for 2010.
“bowed to Saudi thugs?” “Tone deaf to the mood of the country”? Oh, you’re talking about the Bushes. Sorry, I think you meant to say “in bed with Saudi thugs since the 80s” and “complete and total disdain for the poor.”
*there, all fixed*
Name calling when someone disagrees – how original!
Your complains about Obama seems to be that he didn’t fully repair all damage done. Acknowledged, he didn’t. Bush’s bad heritage is gigantic; it takes time, plus he’s unwilling to further split the American society, for example by having Cheney and Bush and Rummy and others prosecuted. I think he should do that, but understand why he doesn’t (given the ridiculous amount of criticism and hatred he’s already facing).
I agree with you that Guantanamo should have already been closed by Obama, despite the fearspreaders. Though it was a bigger mistake (and another crime) to establish such places in the first place.
I also agree that America’s …errr… affair with the Saudi regime isn’t a nice thing. But, as Failerella already pointed out, it’s an old affair – and unfortunately still a necessary one, if you consider the fact that the US refused for decades to think about alternative sources of energy and alter its lifestyle accordingly. The Saudis are your drug dealers, you better be nice to ‘em.
The rest you said is mostly wrong. One of Obama’s first actions as newly elected president was strictly prohibiting torture. Did you forget about that? I haven’t.
The deficit was increased because of the financial crisis (aka “The death of the neoliberal/neoconservative theory”), because everyone, right or left, agreed that it was necessary to do so. BTW – if I remember correctly, the first bailout had Bush’s signature on it (Obama agreed).
The indeed evil and indeed illegal war isn’t completely over (those kind of things take time, too), but you’re less involved – I wouldn’t really count that as Obama’s action, though, I think it would be pretty much alike today no matter who is president.
About the mood of your country: If I’m not mistaken, his approval rate is still over 50%, despite the decrease. So I’m afraid, you have to live with the fact that he’s still representing the majority and that all you Obama haters out there are still a minority. Furthermore, the loudest, most aggressive and utterly apodictic anti-Obamas are a minority within the minority. And a very unpatriotic minority (see Limbaugh “I want him to fail!”).
^5 AA !!
Too bad that asshat cannot understand the factual basis of your comments, AA.
Arthur Ald?
sAntA Johnson?
Well f&$%. Meant AE.
“factual basis” … hardly … check your premises. Not everyone — about half — sees things from your view point.
I had facts and opinions in my statement. Opinions: Bush&Cheney&Rummy&others should end up in jail. Guantanamo should be closed. It’s not only a mistake to start an illegal war and allow torture, but also an evil crime.
The rest were facts, not viewpoints. Acknowledged, I formulated them in a way that made my viewpoints visible, but still: Facts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnjcofMFHsA
take a look at this AE.
*prizes Arthur**holds a speech until the music is too loud*
AE:
Here are some things you need to see on the WMD’s and Bush’s decisions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwqh4wQPoQk
Gore on Iraq:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFBl0fnMUVc
Clinton on Saddam:
why there r only fails from the past 3 months in the voting?
a year lasts usually 12 months
so its only “best of quarter 4 2009″ -> fail blog fail
Ummm.. Blago was in 2008, He was arrested in December… FAIL FAIL!
It continues into 2009, wee.
Yo Kanye, I’m really happy for you, and I’ma let you finish, but Rod Blagojevich had the greatest fail of all time! ALL TIME!
The year is not over yet.
I would have put Sanford higher – that was epic stuff. And I’m an evil Republican, even.
What about your poster girl of stupidity, ElZ? Where would you put S’error Palin? Or the dithering Cheney?
I would put Cheney in his man-sized safe.
I agree that I’m astounded Sanford didn’t rank higher. Prejean too.
I don’t mind Republicans and conservatives, even if I sometimes disagree with them… I DO mind self-described “conservatives” and self-described moral, upstanding citizens who are actually total hypocrites and liars though, so when it fails so spectacularly and bizarrely as mr. “Hikin’ the ol’ Appalachian trail” or Ms. “I’m a part of the moral majority oops I made 8 masturbation tapes!”, I would definitely rank it pretty high on the Fail list. That stuff’s the golden, come on.
Anyone who didn’t vote the rapist and the girlfriend beater #1, FAIL.
Biggest FAIL of the year in my book is the fact that Kanye West is getting so much attention for one rude outburst. Would the other (bigger, in my opinion) FAILs have gotten more votes had they, too, been on the VMAs?
at 2:30
– you gotta press B button to jump
That Roman Polanski only made #10 says a lot about this audience.
that barack obama made not #1 says even a lot more
Yes it does. It says the voters are not nearly as stupid or unthinking as the anti-Obamanites.
*bombs bo3rn on the 1% chance that he is a terrorist threat*
I’d have thought you would just take him on a hunting trip.
I was hysterical with laughter for a full 10 minutes after watching this!!!!!!!
I definately think Tiger should have made this list… some of these events I hadn’t even heard about so they couldn’t of been that bad.
Yes, and your christmas apples are a nice pair.
I love how Democrats/liberals call Republicans/conservatives “anti-Obamanites”, “unpatriotic minority”, “fearspreaders” just because we differ in our view of politics….Arthur Eld, you are my hero. Thanks for reminding me why I am not a Democrat. I actually have a brain and use it. I love that I can see in your academically typed, pretentious script that your brain, if you had one to begin with, has indeed been melted by the liberal media. You really want to sound smart, right? Obviously. Then get your facts straight before you post and get your head out of your ass. Stop being so self-righteously complacent and actually do some research on what is going on in the world around you. Let me make a correction: do research that is fact based and not funded by a political agenda.
It’s time that this “fearspreader” go and scare a few more people into being completely ignorant and devoid of coherent thought so they can join our party of “anti-Obamanites”. That is what I love to do in my spare time. Wait, I forgot…that is how your party was formed, right? Wow, what a winner you must be AE….
That all would have made way more sense if you actually said anything to prove me wrong. It would have also made way more sense if I was a Democrat. Or an American. You ever heard of “arguments”?
A day has passed since I wrote that reply and I have to admit that I’m still a little irritated by that comment. Not because I’m getting insulted, but because I wonder where the American ability to disagree agreeably has gone. No matter if someone agrees with me or not, isn’t it sad that “notanobamalemming” has put so much effort into writing a comment without having anything to say to me apart from insults?
I mean, it’s totally okay to think that my arguments are wrong and that I’m an arrogant ass, but shouldn’t there be a completely different way to deal with someone like me?
Sadly, that’s how politics works nowadays.
You crank up the PR machine to make your opponent look an imbecile and yourself a saint, then you never have to bother thinking about what the opponent says.
True, unfortunately. But why is it everywhere like that? No-one here is a politician, but still there’s no way to get a decent discussion. Especially when the topic is Obama the debates immediately get ugly. Is that racism? Can it be that simple? Just look at my long reply and the comments I got for that – I didn’t insult anyone, but no-one (so far) was able to reply appropriately. Insults is all I got. And sauerkraut did the same thing. Sad.
It is sadly fascinating. It happens a great deal, namely that “discussions” in this area are not carried out in the form of “I am correct and you are incorrect, and here is why I think so …”. They tend often to manifest instead in the form, “I am correct and you are bad.”
In such cases it is more an emotional activity than it is a rational exploration.
The question remains: Why?
If I remember correctly, Clinton wasn’t popular on the right, but I don’t recall everything to be as heated up as it is today when he was president. Plus, he was 8 years in office and he did lie to the public (even if it only was about sex), whereas Obama was flamed practically from day one.
Perhaps it’s just the pent-up tension that has accumulated in the last decade being let out in the path of least resistance. Remember, Bush had to deal with a lot of criticism too, especially towards the end of the second term. He definitely wan’t my fav president, but come on, did people really have to dog him just because he couldn’t pronounce “nuclear”?
Even with that said, though, it still feels like Obama is getting more than his share of bashing. But I think it’s more that the political atmosphere of the country has become more polarized than actual racism (at least I hope so).
P.S – I very much appreciate the intelligent and polite language coming from this part of the board. Thank you for increasing the Internet’s IQ.
My issues with Bush aren’t his language mistakes, although I have to say that I expect my president and my head of state to be able to pronounce “nuclear” correctly. I even expect them to be able to pronounce it in at least one more language than my own…
I have a big problem with Bush’s record. Just take the bad things which happened under his watch and imägine for a second that was the record of, let’s say, Russia, Somalia or Iran. What would Americans say about a Russian (or whatever non-American) leader who invaded another country that posed no threat to his own, based upon obvious lies? What would Americans say about more than 100.000 casualties, the vast majority being civilians? What about torture camps, imprisoning people indefinitely without ever planing to have them facing a regular court? What about secret prisons where people also are tortured? And all that being done by a leader who wasn’t really elected the first time.
Seriously, if you imägine that all was done by A-ztan against the people of B-ztan, I’m quite sure I know how Americans would think of such a leader. And rightfully so, such a record qualifies anyone to be in the hall of shame among other historical leaders, aka “The Bad Guys Guild”. Unfortunately, it was an US president who did all of that; and that is my issue with him.
I too hope it’s not racism (although I strongly suspect that racism plays a part) and you certainly have a point by saying that “the political atmosphere of the country has become more polarized”. But that only alters my question: Why is it more polarized? What happened? My viewpoint is, that the past eight years have proven that the neocon agenda doesn’t work as advertised. Not politically, not socially and certainly not economically. That should be a moment of contemplation for the defeated party – what did we do wrong? What do we need to change, what mustn’t be changed? – but as far as I can see that didn’t happen. Instead the bashing started immediately and it had its effects on a part of the US society, despite the changed situation for the media; in theory, the internet should make it harder for the traditional media sources to have influence on the public opinion. The opposite seems to be true.
Thank you for your reply and your kind words. I do my best.
His user name is ‘not an obama lemming’. Therefore, his opinion should not be taken seriously on political matters.
Anyone who considers or views S’error Palin as a serious political figure is lacking in brainspace.
The name Palin didn’t appear in that comment. Methinks you’re doing pretty much the same thing that several from the “other side” did – insulting for no good reason (see “asshat” up there^) and not really discussing the topic, but changing it to bring up your pet peeve (see “Palin”).
That’s not very helpful IMO. Don’t you already have enough heated debates without any willingness to actually listen and think?
Then why does she scare the left so much. If she was not worth anything…they would not spend so much time trying to ruin her. Sorry…your opinion does not hold water.
Why do the palinistas always resort to the “you are scared of her” and “you are trying to ruin her”?
She does not scare me.
And I am not trying to ruin her. I just want to make sure people look at the issues surrounding her. People need to become more informed. The more people become informed, the more they’ll agree with me that not only she should not be treated as a major political figure, but she is just another member of the Corrupt Old Buzzards Club she claims to have smashed.
As for calling ElZ an asshat for calling AE an idiot and for taking the time to read your comments above, I stand by my comments. If that p*sses people off, so be it.
should read “As for calling ElZ an asshat for calling AE an idiot and for not taking the time to read your comments above, I stand by my comments. If that p*sses people off, so be it.”
So where is the difference between you and folks like that Shadow Splicer up there^?
And Obama is your pure candidate? Obama is a joke and about the most unqualified person and you have the nerve to talk about who surrounds Palin. Jeez…communists, I take it, fit your idea who should have the Presidents ear. Let me add…don’t even go there when it comes to corruption….Washington reaks with corruption. It is so blatant it would be funny if it were not so darn serious.
Spare me the liberal, Kool-aid, close minded, anything goes attitude.
*Makes note in little red book*
Stop listening to Glenn Beck plz. For your own sake.
Perhaps I can answer this as I’m supposedly “on the left” since I’m in the South but not radically conservative (I actually consider myself moderate/independent, but whatever).
“Then why does she scare the left so much.”
Because she’s a charismatic idiot. Put into terms you can understand – for the same reason you’re afraid of Obama? You think he’s an idiot, right? An idiot that is charming enough that people listen to him? Well, some people think Sarah Palin is an idiot. An idiot charming enough that people listen to her, even though she has nothing of worth to say.
That’s the only “scary” thing about her for anyone not slavishly devoted to her, really. And it actually has not so as much to do with her, so much as her followers… ever watch that interview with people in line at the “Going Rogue” book signing? Even if those interviews were chosen for the slant of the video, it still means that a worrying number of Palin fans see nothing wrong with saying they admire her foreign policy… while being incapable of actually being able to remember what said policy actually is. Or that they dislike cap and trade legislation… without actually knowing what cap and trade legislation actually is.
In other words, it’s not Palin that “scares” people, it’s the idiots who follow her. Because, you know, they can vote. They can vote, and probably do, yet they don’t know even the most general, basic details about major issues. This should really worry ANYONE, to be honest. By all means, disagree on major issues, but at least have the decency and common sense to actually investigate what they ARE before you decide to agree or disagree with them, you know?
” If she was not worth anything…they would not spend so much time trying to ruin her. Sorry…your opinion does not hold water.”
What I think is funny is this idea that you think people are actively trying to “ruin her”. In truth, people just tend to repeat the things she says and deconstruct them the way anybody with Google could (which they do because you know, she’s been making a very frequent and successful effort to keep herself in the spotlight). Which doesn’t “ruin her”, really, any more than putting her foot in her own mouth “ruins her”. Especially since she seems to still be making a jolly good living off just speaking engagements and book sales, and controversy “sells”, so basically, people calling her a liar or an idiot just basically amounts to free publicity.
The thought that McCain wins the election, dies and Palin is the president of the United States did scare me. A lot.
…Why?
The thought of them two holding the two most highest positions in the country scared the crap out of me…. I’m so glad we actually have a “decent” intelligent man running our country for a change
Are they talking about a hockey game?
That damn Arthur Eld and his college education!
I with the comment crowd–Tiger should have been in the top 5.
I’m still curious as to why Glenn Beck is even the list, care to explain FAIL Blog? He went from a low rated show on HLN to one of the top rated cable news shows on Fox News, if anything, he should be up for biggest win.
Yes, he should win the Male Asshat of the Year Award.
Actually, he has a point. That should be an ‘American television viewers’ fail.
Its kinda funny isnt it, Bill Clinton does his PA in the white house and people laud him as a hero tiger woods allegedly has affairs and the media cant wait to crucify him I wonder why that is, could it be the media is predominately white,
Kanyw west made a fool of himself pointing out the blatantly obvious that award shows are just another form of advertisement and he gets slated, Russel crowe attacked a guy with a phone, Mel Gibson vented his spleen , Christian Bale lost the plot ver nothing and the media says squat, Im sorry but Im sick of smelling this white BS and Im white!!!
People with working brains know that WJC is an asshat. That’s one reason he faced impeachment. Has Tiger faced impeachment? No. We just make fun of him and the donkeys he rides in.
Sure would like to see Obamason on the list. An ignorant politician is a far worse failure than an ignorant entertainer.
I love the way that ignorance in politicians has become less acceptable since Bush left office.
*SNORK!*
Notwithstanding, I stand by my point, an ignorant politician is a far worse failure than an ignorant entertainer. Political ramifications affect the entire population. I can easily choose to ignore the likes of an overpaid/undertalented entertainer, but am unable to escape the wrath of a politician and his cronies running rampant.
Which of Obama’s “cronies” are “running rampant”? Your logic fails.
I’ll tag-team with Sauerkraut … Ex. of running rampant:
1. Acorn who was paid $800k during the election to “rock the vote”
2. Socialized health care advocates (incl. Dem Senators and Congressmen) who, to their own demise, are about to reduce the effectiveness of our health care system to that of the DMV and public education.
3. Unions who — as a bone thrown by Obama — strong-armed a private business (GM) to be government+union run, much to the big screw of retirees (my father being one of them) and shareholders, those who OWN the business
4. Every politician in Chicago, not the least of which, Blago, Burris, and Daley (I added Daley in there because he thought he could bring Obama to the Olympic Committee and win them over … for Chicago … to get the Olympics … and FAILED miserably.)
And btw … no, I don’t think Republicans are all that much better, and I’m not a Republican, but making Obama into a God is not constructive. Kids worshipping Obama in song? People changing their names to include either “Obama” or “Barack”? Getting the Peace Prize with less than a year in office? This is insanity.
“Men…think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.” — Charles Mackay
You’re really calling a health care system “effective” when about 15.000 Americans die EACH YEAR due to the lack of insurance? We have a different definition of “effective”…
And you get your stat’s where?
Oops, I seem to have been mistaken. Here’s one report about a Harvard study that linked the death of45.000 Americans due to no healt care. Per year:
ht tp://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/18/deaths.health.insurance/index.html
Google is your friend.
CNN is your reference….hmmmm.
Check the Harvard site for it. Or admit that you just don’t want to accept the consequences of an insufficent health care system.
If they’d rather die, then they had better do it and decrease the surplus population.
Bah humbug!
Well….Obama went to Harvard “apparently” and see how well he turned out. Obama had to make up stories of people dying of Cancer because their insurance dropped them cuz they did not tell them they had gall stones. Oh and let’s not forget the great story of Doctors taking out tonsils or cutting off feet to make more money. If facts are what you want…why don’t you start asking the White House to start using them.
I think you are a crazy person.
What..no return comment on Obama’s own words?
Ok…I will be the crazy person that is no biggie…at least I see facts and don’t live in denial.
Obviously we’ll never see eye to eye…but thanks for the debate.
where were Obama’s words stated?
But in what way is Harvard linked to the government ie: funds for new wings etc.. just saying.
Name me one poltician you think isnt ignorant? Then look at the choices, McCain wanted to run with Sarah Palin ffs. Also look at the person they were removing Bush couldnt find his ass with both hands and a presidential commitee, but dab a spot of oil on a tree hundreds of miles away and that war mongering monkey and his “rampant cronies” would sniff it out accuse the tree of being a terrorist cut it down and take the oil then plant a dead seed and laud themselves as the defenders of democracy everywhere.
Lets see if Obama is hated in 4 years. The guy will have to spend the first coupla years cleaning up BS from someone else.
So, I guess you’re saying something like 8 years, right?
Obama is the most un-qualified person for POTUS and IF he is around in 4 years (not impeached) we’ll check his poll #s then.
Obama has made his own BS and he cannot keep pointing at the last admin anymore. He needs to accept his own decisions and failures and stop acting like a little kid and pointing fingers.
Sorry, just had to point out that to impeach a president is a very serious decision; he usually has to do something illegal for Congress to consider it. Or in Clinton’s case, break his marriage vows.
And honestly, do you know of any politician that likes to claim his own mess(es)?
Interesting hypothesis, although I challenge your assumption that entertainers have less power than politicians.
In both cases, there are degrees of power. Entertainers range in popularity and influence from the clown making balloon animals at birthday parties to Oprah. Politicians range influence from the guy who wants to run the Home Owners Association to the President of the United States.
If an entertainer with an Oprah-level of devoted fans had an agenda full of ignorance, a great deal of harm could be done. Maybe even worse than a President could accomplish, because there are no checks and balances in place for entertainers like there are for government.
But entertainers seldomly invade other countrys.
Where did my comment go? Again:
Entertainers seldomly invade other nations.
Mmmkay, there it is. And I look like an idiot. Thanks Failblog.
slow down LOL breath in and out Your blood pressure is up .
1 sucked,
A man who simply was outspoken with his opinion is more fail than a rapist? I am disappoint, failblog.
so strue
Some people are just such a disappointment…it’s kind of sad in a way.
This list is a fail if you think some rapper’s bad behavior is worse than a security breach at the White House or a Governor trying to sell a Senate seat. America’s celebrity obsession is a big fail.
Yes. This exactly! Took the words right out of my brain.
I don’t think Kanye’s outburst was a fail
Mattou
DieganSquared.com
LOL…you are correct…he was successful at ruining Taylors night.
u madam, are an a$$hole, as anyone who reads all ur comments above can see…
I think Sanford would have done a bit better if you’d included his excuse. He said he was hiking the Appalachian mountains on a weekend which included a Nude Hiking Day event
Hard to believe that Blinky (Pelosi) didn’t even get one vote. Not did her partner. Let’s see, “would you call me Senator and not Maam” or something like that)…Geeez
Perhaps the list should not be compiled until the year is actually over, to make room for stunts that happen at the end of the year. Like Tiger Woods.
Glenn Beck? No.
All those other people? Yes. Tiger Woods should be in Glenn Beck’s place.
YES!
faux news, beck, hannity and that ilk are a blilght on the media, news and this world. what a bunch of uniformed gits.
I think the biggest fail of 2009 is the word “Fail”. Please, let’s start coming up with a new term for 2010…
I’m wondering why Chris Brown is not #1. It’s worse to mic-snatch, wear Ed Hardy, poison the public mind, use gay slurs, or feebly attempt to imitate Angelina than beat your girlfriend and possibly give your adoring yet naive fans the message that that is OK, cuz hey, your girlfriend still listens to your music and you don’t do real jail time? Fail …
My god, Obama trumps all these people. What an epic failure in less than a year! I thought Bush was bad. Bush doesn’t hold a candle to this clown. I so regret my vote. Boy was I a sucker. Based on the polls, I guess I am not the only one who is wakening up…
YES SO MUCH!
Just one more anti-Obama outbreak and ShadowSplicer will cum.
Wow, I guess this site is haunted by a majority of kool-aid drinking, MSNBC viewing, Obama worshippers.
As a few have pointed out, Beck has done NOTHING to deserve a “Fail” unless of course you consider “fail” speaking out against a President’s policies and whom he hires. The guy is madly successful for what he does.
For 8 years it was considered patriotic to disagree, call the POTUS “Worst President Ever” and never say a good thing about him. Now it’s all time to get in line a follow-the-leader…..
top 10 wins ?
Glenn Beck on “fail” list…what are you people smokin?
His ratings are thru the roof. Obviously a liberal blog with no clue about who this man is and what he stands for. Let me help you out…the Constitution, your rights as Americans and the truth about curruption in Govt which affects your lives, jobs and your future. Keep drinking the Kool-aid folks cuz you are missing out.
Liberals don’t drink Kool-aid anymore; too many preservatives and artificial flavors/colors. We all drink caffeine-free, stevia-sweetened sodas that come in several lovely, all-natural flavors. My personal favorite is grape.
I should write sarcastic responses to politically biased posts more often. It’s better than cable!
Kanye is the master of FAIL. I’m just surprised that Paris Hilton didn’t make it on there (just for being Paris Hilton), Kate Gosselin (manipulative, controlling skank), Obama (broken campaign promises anyone?), and half his staff (lying, tax cheating, arrogant fools who are screwing up this country). Don’t forget Pelosi and Reid!
thanks failblog. i might not agree with the numerical positions but i definately agree with the choices.
Why are Glenn Beck and Carrie Prejean doing on that list? They were both trough loads of win.
you people are funny! so angry over politics on a forum that started out about a fail list lol u should know u cant have a civilized discussion about politics, to touchy of a subject
They should have included the MTV VMA 2009 Introduction, when a dancer fail to dance like michael jackson at the end of “Smooth Criminal”, that was really embarasing!!!
Did anyone else notice that the fail # 10 in the video is fake??? U can plainly see that the faucet was turned in a different direction and the one it was supposed to be for is in the shot.
Who’s the douchebag who put Glenn Beck on the list? Fail my butt! Nancy Pelosi needs to be on that list along with Harry Reid.
Hahahahahahaha! I swear, you can find a bunch of petty partisan name-calling ANYWHERE these days. How about putting the American Public right at the top of this list? One half hates the other half & neither half can do anything but throw insults around. What a joke! I’ve seen better debates between twelve-year-olds! The only guy that tried to have a rational discussion isn’t even an American! What’s funny (or would be, but it’s actually too sad) is that you’ve all been getting the shaft from Washington for decades, and all you can do is fight one another!! Well, peace out, not sticking around to hear how functional your brain is or how I’m an ass-hat. Had enough of that in 3rd grade, thank you.
what about the guy who blew his face of with chewing gum? thats a serious fail.
FAIL
Im with you CF, even though youre not around to read this comment bc you had to “peace out” which shows that youre really just a pacifist climate change denying gun totting big government supporting conspiracy minded Obama worshipping ass-hat that buys into all the bull $#@t on Fox News even though Glenn Beck warned you that the media is filled with liars. To be fair to sauerkraut though, “ass-hat” does have a nice ring to it. Im going to bring that one back into rotation, see how it plays out in the work place. Whats with the hostility, youre all a bunch of eeeeediots. Damn list is wrong! Pick a side jerk and dance.
Moral of the story is that people hear what they want to hear and say what they want to say. Your assumption that debates are based on facts is incorrect. Debates are based on information. Information originates with facts, but in order for facts to reach you it must pass through a source. Information is thus hearsay, and once filtered by the source or sources it can incorporate bias through the means of opinions and/or misrepresentation being mixed in to variating degrees. What’s “fact” is lost by the time it reaches you. Fox News may have been one of the first to aggressively capitalize on this weakness that exists in the very nature of information but it existed before they exploited it. Today, just about every other form of media outlet, ie radio, print, internet, includes a variety of sources that consistently present information that is predominately based on misrepresented facts or opinions. Its inevitable that information will move further and further away from its original factual basis influencing the quality of debates. And debates are really just a means to discovering new ideas. Therefore, the quality of ideas will continue to denegrate in successive generations respective to that of information. Or maybe Im wrong? I dont know, Im biased.
Lamest top 10 video EVER!
Loving all the Glenn Beck defenders in here.
Well, not really, but it’s funny watching them attempt to defend that nutter anyway.
obama,obama,obama,obama,obama,obama,obama,obama,obama and obama! drum role, plz, telepromter on and it’s a go, oh wait maybe not! would you fix this thing i can’t read, whats that word? Oh yeah, America your all scre//ed!
…ok, am I the only one that didn’t catch the point of that?
I’m waaayyy too lazy to read the comments (or use ctrl+f) but did anyone else notice that of the 10 “videos” items 2, 6, 8, and 10 were pictures…
Sooo… yeah…
And… after being less lazy and reading the whole caption I call double fail as there were neither 10 vids not 10 pictures as the caption seems to imply… (man, I’m lazy)
Not quite sure about Glenn Beck being on the list.
I would have liked to see Paris Hilton on the list too.
I will kill shadow.
WMD’s in Iraq should be #1
#1 Fail should be the lemmings who couldn’t help themselves as to make this and any other situation on the planet about Obama while spewing talk-radio bullet points. Double fail as to act like an approval poll matters now and passing judgment now as opposed to reelection time. But seriously tiger woods should get it how does your entire sexual resumes get out like that? Hes going to be taken to the cleaners
I have but one thing to say about the kid on the pogo stick…and that is…Today you become a woman.
Tiger Woods can’t be a tiger anymore cuz he’s a CHEETAH! OOOOOHHHH! BURN!!!!
Haha! The guy on the pogo stick looks like a friend of mine!
Definately something he would do!
ROFL!
Discussion Fail
“President” Obambi does NOT deserve to be on this list; he achieved the greatest amount of fail in record time, and that’s something. Now if he could just get his li’l rubber stamp committee to pull their heads out, then maybe he can get that whole foolish socialist agenda rolling…
I mean seriously, how inept do you have to be to still not be able to get the Hill on the ball when they’re all ideologically like you!?
I guess he does deserve to on this list, but not because he’s black (he’s not).
the latest fail, Tiger Wood, LoL
#9 i guess how Jason Borhgese really drowned
i dont think octomom failed. dint she got money and stuff?
The biggest Fail of the newly born century will be the infantile way in which one of the greatest possibilities for humans as a species to evolve through communication (the Internet) is used for the sole purpose of porn , name calling and silly ignorant playground boasting…EVOLVE ! damned it you all disgust me
George Bush should be #1
You people are all taking this way too seriously when you talk about global warming and obama and serious stuff like that. This is supposed to be a lighthearted thing to make people laugh not to make people with NO LIFE *hint hint* say that obama should b a fail! Seriously just get a life and laugh a little!
LEAVE OBAMA ALONE FFS HE DANCES ON CHAT SHOWS EPIC WIN GUYS GO HOME ANMD WACHT UR 10″ TELE GUYS I HAVE 60\” TELE MWAHAHAHA!!!111!!11!!!!!!!1!!!!!!111!!!!
i love that
i hate that
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
In response to ShadowSplicer’s assinine comment “WHY IS EVERYBODY ON THIS SITE SO FREAKING BLIND TO THE TRUTH?! GLOBAL WARMING IS A NOT A MYTH, IT RAISES THE TEMPERATURE A WHOLE 0.4 C EVERY 100 YEARS!!!! OMG WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!”
WTF, are you freakin serious? You earlier stated that we are causing global warming and then you add this. Do you realize that automobiles have not been since about the last .6 C? Come up to northern Manitoba and try to stand on your soapbox and preach your “Global Warming” Just make sure you are wearing plenty of layers as it is -26ºC this morning!
To slimmerman. In response to slimmermans response to ShadowSplicers Idiotic comment: slimmerman is right. The earth is actually warming up. it seems that slimmerman is the only intelligent person on this blog, and ShadowSplicer seems to be a total racist DOUCHEBAG! Global warming is not a myth. Obama is a way more president than W. Bush. W,s greatest achivement? We do not torture NOT! And an other achivement: wasting the countrys economy on Afghanistan
Reasons Obama is better than Bush:
-Obama did not waste the countrys economy on Afghanistan
-Obama did not say we dont torture, and then lie to people
-Obama did not say in front of nine microphones that a guy was a major league ass