More like for a week or three. And the bacon must be very crispy. Then you have to strain it. Through coffee filters. And buy an extra brita filter and run it through that. THEN you can drink it.
To attract people that are not Muslim, and who would just like to learn more about Islam, yes, they can have a pizza lunch. Muslims are not stupid. And just because they fast and will not eat at this time, does not mean that they can not offer to anyone else, or that they can not be in the same room as someone eatting.
It is also a custom during the time of Ramadan, to feed the hungry and clothe the poor. But when they feed the hungry, they dont care who you are or what religion you are, or are not. They send money to groups in America that need funding to support their charities. They send money to the homeless shelters.
I think a few more people should have stopped in for that lunch before they posted here. I am not Muslim, but my Husband and his family are. I asure you I still eat pork and bacon, and I keep it in my house. And I will eat in front of them while they are fasting. It does not bother them a bit.
Not to mention, that this may have been prior to Ramadan, or even after. As far as I know, people tend to want to learn about the actual event, and what to do in the event, before it happens, so they can be prepared.
either way… its not a fail. if you took a theology class in college, you’d know that Ramadan is in November, and the seminar is in september… sorry to ruin this one, but i had to.
The date for the month of Ramadan is determined by a lunar calendar. Its occurrence thus shifts a week or so each year in comparison to a solar one. In 2008, the year for the poster in the above picture, Ramadan was in September. This year, 2009, Ramadan will begin on August 21st.
there is no way this is a fail. Ramadan is in November, and this seminar is in september.. the only fail on this page is my 2 comments… sry to ruin this one but i had to.
Yep. To duplicate my discussion with someone else on Windshield Wiper Fail:
“Because the flyer was advertising an educational lunch rather than a special Ramadan ham topped pizza offer.”
Yeah that’s pretty much what I meant. First, we don’t even know if the people teaching this class are Muslim. We do know that most likely the people coming to learn aren’t. This appears to simply be a cultural class designed to help people learn about one aspect of the Islamic faith. These kind of classes go on all over the US, especially since the whole terrorist scare, as a method to try and alleviate peoples fear of Muslims through education. Hell, at my local university there is a professor who holds a Masters degree in Religious studies, but he is an atheist. He teaches these kinds of classed all the time. Although I find it kind of strange to have someone telling others what people believe and why, when they have no real basis to understand those beliefs.
Hah…I just came back and read this thread. My apologies, I misunderstood the original post. I was confuzzled by the idea that people weren’t going through Ramadan…during Ramadan!
I still think it’s a FAIL even if the seminar is purely educational. It seems kind of counter-intuitive to have somebody doing the opposite of what you’re trying to teach them about.
Ramadan is about fasting during the daytime; eating after the sun sets is permitted, IIRC. So, that’d be why the pizza thing starts at midnight, surely?
Well I don’t know what the major malfunction of the UK’s National Physics Laboratory is, but once again a group of intelligent people prove just how dumb they can be. When the twelve hour clock was devised, and later revised, there were certain things put in place as to how it functions. For example, it is based on 24 hours a day, each hour is 60 minutes, each minute is 60 seconds, etc. And Noon = 12PM whereas Midnight = 12AM. That is how it was designed and defined. Now they could have said there were 20 hours a day with a hundred minutes an hour and a hundred seconds a minute and developed a ten hour clock, but they didn’t. (Of course that would have necessitated different lengths of time term) Likewise they set Noon = 12PM and Midnight = 12AM. They could have done it the other way around, but they didn’t. This was the convention used, period. The problem isn’t that there was no standard set, because there was, the problem is that people are dumb and have trouble understanding this. By standard, midnight = 12AM and is the start of a new day. You can think of it this way, 12 on a twelve hour clock can be thought of as zero. That makes it a little easier to understand the standard. Now they could have made zero the standard on the clock instead of twelve, but they didn’t. There is a standard, the problem is people don’t know the standard (including at least some UK physicists) and get confused.
My apologizes for picking on UK physicists. A quick check has reveled that that US physicists are also suffering from this attack of the dumbs. Apparently these scientists are over thinking this and getting themselves all confused instead of simply using the standards set forth. I think the problem is that this standard is one of convention instead of a quantifiable one.
I’ve been trying to figure out why these, one would assume, intelligent scientists seem to have problems with such a simple conventional standard. I now wonder if it is due to the International System of Units aka Le Système International d’Unités that was developed in the 1960’s. From what I can see that system never set a convention for the terms of 12PM and 12AM, and since they threw out all the old conventions, maybe that is what causes the problem. The US has never officially adopted the International System of Units, so we still use the old standard were it was defined. However, certain parts of US society have adopted the Si despite the fact that the country hasn’t. The scientific community for example all use Si. That would explain why the US physicists also have a problem with the standard, it doesn’t seem to exist in Si! Pretty bad oversight by the people who formed the Si.
Okay Biff I will try to use small, common words that you may understand me. Ante Meridiem does indeed mean before noon. Before, not during. Post means after, not during. At the moment of transition (sorry, change) it is exactly noon. Not before noon, AM; nor after noon, PM.
If you wish to disbelieve all texts and physicists, feel free. What would a physics know about time anyway.
Not eating during the day to feel like a poor person is so very hypocrite (sorry if I failed on the spelling of that word, I’m not English).
I used to say to my muslim coworkers: Poor people don’t suddenly start eating after sundown, you know. They gave me the angry look, but really couldn’t think of anything to say.
Giving away food to poor people during Ramadan would be a win.
A friend of mine used to work with a lot of muslims. Then the company organized a barbeque. They only had pork. Now that’s a fail.
as a woman….I WISH! Are you kidding, we get so chubby droopy during Ramadan! Our metabolism goes crazy, our stomach shrinks, we snack all night, and wake up before sunrise to munch some more… proof that us ladies don’t just fast Ramadan to shed off a few pounds!
that’s actually a very small part of it.
the main motivation is to gain “God-consciousness” because every time you feel hungry or thirsty you think about why you’re putting yourself through it, and you remind yourself its for God.
secondary reasons are to relate to hunger that the poor feel, and to free yourself from worldly nourishment to give you more time for worship.
One of the purposes to fasting is to feel the SMALLEST part of what a needy person feels. One day of hunger definitely qualifies. Also, another part is to be charitable and help the needy with donations of money, food, or time.
The reason you probably got angry looks was your delivery. If you ask questions in a condescending manner (as I gathered from your post), people won’t take you seriously, or get pissed at you for denigrating their beliefs.
Religious folks give me angry looks when I make a perfectly understandable statement which they cannot argue, since the discussion always stops with: Well, that’s what I believe.
Belief is the only thing that messures itself to lack of evidence. The less evidence there is, the more faith is required, and the more it is worthy of respect. That’s not acceptable to me in any way.
Going back to my original post: I said it to someone who claimed ramadan is to feel how the poor and homeless feel. And yes, that enraged me and encouraged me to comment as I did.
That’s quite a simplistic, over-generalized and uninformed depiction of “religious folks.”
.
For some people — religious and non-religious — “belief” means adopting a concept for which you lack empirical evidence. For others, however, it means opening your mind and heart to experiences that are more original and more basic than any simply made up intellectual notion.
.
Some religious people are merely dogmatic about their concepts, while other religious people base their spirituality on direct, immediate experience. Buddhism is founded squarely on an insistence to question beliefs and rely only on direct experience. And that practical approach to religiousness is not restricted to Buddhism. Christian contemplatives, for example, use a different vocabulary for expressing their spiritual experiences, but they do the same empirical, “evidence-based” meditative practices.
.
The whole science “versus” religion thing is very skewed. (It is quite easy to find anti-religion scientists, for instance, who make poorly informed and completely unscientific pronouncements about human spirituality.)
You’re using categories that are still over-generalized. Virtually the entire Buddhist tradition, for instance, could be considered an “institutionalized religion” of “own [direct] experience.”
.
You say in another post that you’re trying to make simplified statements, and I
don’t feel this is really the place to have discussions like these. But when “simplified” statements appear in a public space, and they make incorrect suggestions about deeply valued human practices and experiences, I’m prompted to point out that there are different perspectives.
As for …”It is quite easy to find anti-religion scientists, for instance, who make poorly informed and completely unscientific pronouncements about human spirituality.”, the reverse is also true. I’ll leave it to you to decide which “reverse” that I am referring to, a Rorschach moment as it were.
Facile distinctions between “spirituality” and “religion” can be comforting,
but are based ultimately on a species of conceptual cop out.
.
The fact dogmatic religious people make stupid statements about “science” is merely stupid. But for otherwise intelligent scientists to make grossly uniformed and arrogantly dogmatic statements when calling “religion” grossly uninformed and arrogantly dogmatic — that’s a lot worse than stupid.
fasting is much more than just that.
it’s also about Ramadan learning compassion, and “cultivating our piety”.
and also…
“The fast of Ramadan is not about physical deprivation, it is meant to be deeply spiritual experience. In the holy Quran it is stated that the purpose of the fast is to develop a quality which in Arabic we call taqwa.”
I’ve been to quick to reply to your first post but just to reiterate what I’ve written – Islam says that fasting is to make / increase piety or God-consciousness. Islam has never say that fasting is for the purpose of feeling how the poor and hungry feel. The problem with what happened to you was that the Muslims you asked grew up with this misunderstanding. I believe that if they knew the correct reason for fasting, you’ve gotten a perfectly reasonable answer.
They do give away food to poor people during Ramadan. And its not done to feel like a poor person, it is to build discipline, patience, and to remember God. I’m not sure why your co-workers didn’t tell you this, maybe they were being polite and didn’t want to start a fight with someone who obviously doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
If you want to feel like a poor person, what works best is moving to America where everything is measured in terms of how much debt you have amassed. It’s such an important part of our culture that our own government tries to amass as much debt as possible to show us what to do with our credit cards and mortgages.
Um, actually? Ramadan’s the time that people usually pay the zakat, or offering to the poor. It’s one of the five pillars of Islam. So yeah, they give stuff to poor people. They’re also encouraged to do it at other times of the year–the more you give to the poor, the more right you get with God/Allah.
If you think about it, some poor people *do* go hungry all day and eat after sundown. Why? That’s kind of how homeless shelters are set up. In other cases you have people who were at work all day, too broke to buy lunch and they don’t get a meal until they get home. It’s not a universal experience by any means but the daily fasting isn’t far off. The idea, anyway, is to experience that feeling of hunger without dropping dead from starvation, suicide being forbidden in Islam. (Yes. Yes, it is. Believe it or not.)
There are other reasons for fasting too, such as gaining a greater spiritual awareness generally. Interesting how, say, Hindu ascetics are not mocked for doing this but it’s not OK for Muslims?
I actually had a co-worker who was muslim and who respected “Ramadan,” and was the sweetest person I knew…. Her name was Unissa… She would get up early before dawn and make breakfast/lunch for her kids and strickly follow the no-eating-rule…
Unless… She was on her “time-of-the-month-thangy,” or just plain hungry.. Or…Ok, she would just state”It was mostly for men…” And she was hungry… And, to make a long story short… There seemed to be ALOT of flexibility with this “Fasting” thing..
NO FLEXIBILTY with pork though, she didnt touch the stuff… But if she was hungry, she’d eat during the day…
Dont even get me started on when she was finding hubby’s for her 2 (16 and 18 yr olds) daughters… It didnt turn out exactly as you might have thought…
I can’t speak for your colleague’s fastidiousness for the mostpart, but I feel the need to point out that women are exempt from fasting while they are menstruating. They are, in fact, forbidden from partaking (it’s about body purity) They are expected to make up the days afterward.
In Islam you aren’t allowed to eat ‘when you get hungry’ while fasting… you fast from sunrise to sunset from food and drink. The only time either is excused is if you completely forget that you were fasting and consume something before remembering, because you are judged on your intentions. And I don’t think fasting is ‘mostly for men’; it’s required for both men and women equally, with women not having to fast while on their periods but having to make up the missed days at a later date of their choosing.
Sorry to jump in here, but the whole point of having the Pizza Lunch on the 10th of September for that particular event is that the month of Ramadan ends on the 9th. So when the fasting period is over, guess what they do. I bet you’ll never figure it out.
No. Ramadan began on September 1 and it’s impossible that it would have ended on the 10th because it lasts from new moon to new moon, or roughly 28 days. This class was aimed at non-Muslims and the Muslims leading it would not have expected the attendees to fast.
But, yes. Muslims do eat pizza. There is even such a thing as halal pepperoni–of course, it would not be made of pork.
@missionpants: seems your friend was taking you for a ride – fasting isn’t ‘mostly for men’. sure, they can skip it during “that time of the month” but not if they’re simply hungry…
Okay dipstick, here I go again. I should save this so that I needn’t type it yet another time.
Americans come from all over the world. We speak all languages and hold all beliefs on all subjects. We have been known to go after each others throats when there is a conflicting viewpoint and humiliate someone who looks different, but that is a habit that was picked up from the rest of the world.
If you wish to see someone who has typical American views just look in the mirror. In your case that is a sad comment, but a true one.
To put it in words that you might be able to understand: Take both hands and try to get a grip on reality.
Just because I live in the sod cabin that my grandfather built, have light provided by tapers and rush lights and have dial-up internet access doesn’t mean that you can pick on me. I may sic my pet grizzly on you.
Ramadan doesn’t mean you don’t eat anything for the whole month. You just don’t eat at daylight, retards >_> All-American, dudes … not caring about other cultures.
but your whole point was about when you were supposed to fast, and you called americans retards because we apparently didn’t know this. but then it was pointed out that we know that but it was during the day. then you just changed the topic basically. that’s cool though.
Yes, because according to the three desert dogma’s, you go to hell if you dare to be human.
Indulging in you desires (NOT at someone else’s expense) will get you a lot closer to god.
If I give someone a teapot, I would want them to use it and I’d be insulted if I didn’t.
I think God must feel the same way about Free Will.
He must be thinking: “Why de bloody hell aren’t they using their Free Will. Do they have any idea how much time it took to create such a thing. Blaspheming ingrates!
Bo, your notion of religion is your own impoverished, made-up idea. I’m religious, and what you’ve said here doesn’t relate to me in the least, nor to any of the spiritual traditions I’ve taken the time to learn about.
Well, it’s not made-up. But of course, I’m not putting my real ideas out here. I’ve thought so much about it, that I could write for hours about it. And I really don’t feel like it. So that’s why I say it so symplistic. I find it funny how many people even seriously respond to it.
I would like to point out for future reference: I am never talking about people who think for themselves. I’m talking about the blind followers.
I’m religious too, you know. But i’d never demand respect for what I believe. I believe – doing that – I would take away their right to freedom FROM religion.
And to the ones who do carry out their beliefs despite if anyone likes it or not: Matthew 6:5-6
Every traditional human culture that has ever existed has had rules about dress, behavior, marriage, kids, sex, food, and who knows what else. The Abrahamic religions depart from that only in the sense that two of them have a universalist outlook.
We only complain about Muslims because we’ve gotten so used to having no standards at all that any hint of the old way of high standards is threatening to us, which is why we make jokes about Amish people. Couple this with the fact that Americans (and Westerners in general) are still racist as hell and considering that the majority of the Muslim community are people of color and you have a formula for disaster.
But this bit of people just wandering around doing whatever the hell they feel like, this is not normal human experience. And it really has nothing to do with freedom. Being lost and rootless is not freedom. Substituting consumerism and toys for human community is not freedom. I don’t think it’s an accident that we have higher rates of physical and mental illness now that so many people have been severed from their cultural roots. I don’t know how much of it has to do with the wrath of a God, but it sure is noteworthy.
The whole notion that there can be such a thing as a “secular” society is an historical anomaly. As Dana suggests, cultures always have had over-arching social values and systems for appreciating meaning in life (which frequently get labeled “spiritual” or “religious”). A bit ironically, the U.S. self-identifies as a pre-eminent secular nation, on the one hand, but at the same time it has among the world’s highest percentage of its population who attend religious services regularly.
Oh, Buckfast. Lovingly known as the Glaswegian Champagne.
“If it’s good enough for the monks, it’s good enough for the punks”.
*Is ashamed to admit she used to be a scummy punk*
lmao my friend ur intel fails.. its the other way around.. u cant eat from sunrise til sunset.. but who cares cuz the seminar is for non-muslims who rnt fasting so ya its still not a fail lol
if you’re already a practicing muslim why would you need to go that seminar?
so obviously that flyer was for those that do not practice Islam and and who may be curious about Islam and about why muslim’s fast during Ramadan.
So saying that there is pizza provided isn’t a fail. I’m guessing the people who are speaking at the seminar ARE muslim so of course i’m sure they didn’t eat the pizza. As it says on the flyer 10 Sept 08. Fasting started on the 1st of Sept and ended today [30 Sept].
This is most likely from a college. I know my school had a Ramadan “Fast-a-thon” but it had a buffet and advertised “free food”. Huzzah for trying to appeal to poor college kids!
The attendees are obviously not Muslims for they would not need to learn more about Ramadan from a presentation such as this one. If the lecturer should be a Muslim what’s wrong with offering the attendees a bit of food? I believe hospitality is important in this religion. Iffy fail at best.
uhh this is not a fail at all lol its a fail for tryin to make it a fail.. yes it was ramadan at that day but think about it who will attend the the seminar? obviously non-muslims who rnt fasting so it wud be okay for them to eat lol and as for bacon.. okay not a big deal they can serve cheese, vegi, chicken, beef, even fish instead of bacon lol
No FAIL like a pizza lunch…
The fail is weak in this one.
Extra bacon on mine, please.
now thats a fail!
Lol actually all the pizzas I like have either Ham Bacon or pepperoni on so this is more fail than I at first thought.
I had a pizza and soup lunch today. Odd combination but it was fantastic!
I had soup and a home made cheese scone.
That sounds WAY better than Ham Bacon.
I’m gonna drink bacon flavored vodka tonight.
Dragon can hook you up with some chocolate bacon to go with that.
No!!! That’s ME that has that!!!
And I’ve made bacon vodka too.
I thought dragon had it too?
Bacon vodka… that’d be pretty easy to achieve, I would think.
Leave a rasher in your bottle overnight?
More like for a week or three. And the bacon must be very crispy. Then you have to strain it. Through coffee filters. And buy an extra brita filter and run it through that. THEN you can drink it.
More like a week or three. It’s complicated. And it appears that the blogmonster ate my other comment.
It’s true. I only said I’d tried it. Once.
The chockie bacon, not the vodka. Though I WOULD try that, given the chance.
You’re bacon mad!
And you’re bacon for an achin’!
You should always trust the fried and true method.
He’s a big pig, yup yup, you can be a big pig too, OI!
Gimme my piggy back, piggy back, picggy back… with ribs.
Who are you calling a pig?
Well muslims call anyone else a pig. Because, so did their paedophile prophet.
Be careful what you name your teddy bear…
Go, entertain yourself
Go, ente…… yourself
Go, ……… yourself
Could have stopped with:
Go, enter…… yourself
Not if you know that anyone observing the month of Ramadan is supposed to wait until SUNDOWN to eat!
I noe. It appears that nobody else in the list realises that. MORONS!
This is not a fail at all.
To attract people that are not Muslim, and who would just like to learn more about Islam, yes, they can have a pizza lunch. Muslims are not stupid. And just because they fast and will not eat at this time, does not mean that they can not offer to anyone else, or that they can not be in the same room as someone eatting.
It is also a custom during the time of Ramadan, to feed the hungry and clothe the poor. But when they feed the hungry, they dont care who you are or what religion you are, or are not. They send money to groups in America that need funding to support their charities. They send money to the homeless shelters.
I think a few more people should have stopped in for that lunch before they posted here. I am not Muslim, but my Husband and his family are. I asure you I still eat pork and bacon, and I keep it in my house. And I will eat in front of them while they are fasting. It does not bother them a bit.
lighten up
Would that more folks here expressed themselves as reasonably and in as “enlightened” a manner as lilfox has.
Though I guess a big boor who goes by “hunt” can’t be expected to really appreciate an intelligent lilfox.
Not to mention, that this may have been prior to Ramadan, or even after. As far as I know, people tend to want to learn about the actual event, and what to do in the event, before it happens, so they can be prepared.
I have this feeling, that the date given here, is BEFORE Ramadhan. Makes Sense?
either way… its not a fail. if you took a theology class in college, you’d know that Ramadan is in November, and the seminar is in september… sorry to ruin this one, but i had to.
Sorry, but you failed to pay attention in class.
The date for the month of Ramadan is determined by a lunar calendar. Its occurrence thus shifts a week or so each year in comparison to a solar one. In 2008, the year for the poster in the above picture, Ramadan was in September. This year, 2009, Ramadan will begin on August 21st.
there is no way this is a fail. Ramadan is in November, and this seminar is in september.. the only fail on this page is my 2 comments… sry to ruin this one but i had to.
there is no way ur not a fail
i am sry Ur Retarded
hmmm pizza
Exactly. Pizza is NEVER fail.
Except when it comes from the frozen foods section of the supermarket.
Oooo no, I still love it. I mean, providing it’s cooked first obviously.
Somewhat amusing, poster implicitly means that it’s for non-Muslim audiences…
Makes sense. It could be for, maybe people who converted to Islam, a small community. They will learn to fast. But not likely.
That’s not a fail. They are teaching Ramadan, not going through it. FAIL of a fail.
Ramadan ran from (roughly) 2008-09-01 through 2008-09-30, so they were “going through it” at the time.
Did you look at the date of the seminar?
Did it give you some sort of a hint as to why this is more of a fail than you think?
You go ahead…I’ll wait while you figure it out…
I don’t see your point. People aren’t allowed to learn about Islam on the day before the anniversary of 9/11?
Ramadan runs from 01 Sept – 01 Oct this year
I think
Biff’s point (I assume) was that the class is to learn about Ramadan, not to participate in it.
ding ding ding ding vooga vooga
loz gets the cookie
Yep. To duplicate my discussion with someone else on Windshield Wiper Fail:
“Because the flyer was advertising an educational lunch rather than a special Ramadan ham topped pizza offer.”
Can everyone please stop duplicating their own comments
ok.
ok .
Yeah that’s pretty much what I meant. First, we don’t even know if the people teaching this class are Muslim. We do know that most likely the people coming to learn aren’t. This appears to simply be a cultural class designed to help people learn about one aspect of the Islamic faith. These kind of classes go on all over the US, especially since the whole terrorist scare, as a method to try and alleviate peoples fear of Muslims through education. Hell, at my local university there is a professor who holds a Masters degree in Religious studies, but he is an atheist. He teaches these kinds of classed all the time. Although I find it kind of strange to have someone telling others what people believe and why, when they have no real basis to understand those beliefs.
Hah…I just came back and read this thread. My apologies, I misunderstood the original post. I was confuzzled by the idea that people weren’t going through Ramadan…during Ramadan!
But you make a fair point here.
I still think it’s a FAIL even if the seminar is purely educational. It seems kind of counter-intuitive to have somebody doing the opposite of what you’re trying to teach them about.
You can learn about things without having to actually do them right then and there.
Ramadan is about fasting during the daytime; eating after the sun sets is permitted, IIRC. So, that’d be why the pizza thing starts at midnight, surely?
Submission FAIL? (and comment FAIL on my part?)
That’s what I was thinking, but it starts at noon and goes ’till 1 pm.
Telling-Time Fail. 12 PM is noon, 12 AM is midnight.
To be precise, there are no standards for 12 PM and 12 AM. This is why we say 12 noon and 12 midnight.
What do you mean there are no standards? 12PM happens in the middle of the day. 12AM in the middle of the night. That IS the only standard.
AM = Ante Meridiem. It is Latin and means “before noon”
PM = Post Meridiem. It is Latin and means “after noon”
Noon = 12PM therefore Midnight = 12AM
Blast! They filtered my link. I shall try again. npl.co.uk/server.php?show=ConWebDoc.1055
If that fails again just go to the UK National Physics Laboratory websites FAQ section.
It is a bit like zero being neither positive nor negative.
Well I don’t know what the major malfunction of the UK’s National Physics Laboratory is, but once again a group of intelligent people prove just how dumb they can be. When the twelve hour clock was devised, and later revised, there were certain things put in place as to how it functions. For example, it is based on 24 hours a day, each hour is 60 minutes, each minute is 60 seconds, etc. And Noon = 12PM whereas Midnight = 12AM. That is how it was designed and defined. Now they could have said there were 20 hours a day with a hundred minutes an hour and a hundred seconds a minute and developed a ten hour clock, but they didn’t. (Of course that would have necessitated different lengths of time term) Likewise they set Noon = 12PM and Midnight = 12AM. They could have done it the other way around, but they didn’t. This was the convention used, period. The problem isn’t that there was no standard set, because there was, the problem is that people are dumb and have trouble understanding this. By standard, midnight = 12AM and is the start of a new day. You can think of it this way, 12 on a twelve hour clock can be thought of as zero. That makes it a little easier to understand the standard. Now they could have made zero the standard on the clock instead of twelve, but they didn’t. There is a standard, the problem is people don’t know the standard (including at least some UK physicists) and get confused.
My apologizes for picking on UK physicists. A quick check has reveled that that US physicists are also suffering from this attack of the dumbs. Apparently these scientists are over thinking this and getting themselves all confused instead of simply using the standards set forth. I think the problem is that this standard is one of convention instead of a quantifiable one.
I’ve been trying to figure out why these, one would assume, intelligent scientists seem to have problems with such a simple conventional standard. I now wonder if it is due to the International System of Units aka Le Système International d’Unités that was developed in the 1960’s. From what I can see that system never set a convention for the terms of 12PM and 12AM, and since they threw out all the old conventions, maybe that is what causes the problem. The US has never officially adopted the International System of Units, so we still use the old standard were it was defined. However, certain parts of US society have adopted the Si despite the fact that the country hasn’t. The scientific community for example all use Si. That would explain why the US physicists also have a problem with the standard, it doesn’t seem to exist in Si! Pretty bad oversight by the people who formed the Si.
Okay Biff I will try to use small, common words that you may understand me. Ante Meridiem does indeed mean before noon. Before, not during. Post means after, not during. At the moment of transition (sorry, change) it is exactly noon. Not before noon, AM; nor after noon, PM.
If you wish to disbelieve all texts and physicists, feel free. What would a physics know about time anyway.
The pizza is going to disappear fast!
Fasting food
*drumroll*
pretty sure you meant *rimshot*
Haha, rimshot.
tee hee tee hee
a daily meal is consumed to break the daily fast in the month of ramadan. l2appreciate culture and religion. fail.
The daily meal is consumed after dark. Not at lunch.
yes, meals are consumed from sundown to sunrise. noon, however, is for fasting
No way. Learning about Ramadan with a pizza lunch is an EPIC WIN.
(According to the way I think, of course
)
especially if the pizza is pepperoni and sausage!
Keep Sausage far, far away from my food! DO NOT WANT special sauce on my pizza.
Too late;> got plenty of it.
If you r using WordPress you should try the Paginated Comments plug-in. Very useful for sites with a lot of comments.
sry 4 off-topic
When changing a light bulb, ensure the one you are removing has cooled down first.
When putting a stamp on an envelope, always make sure it is the right way up.
Always make sure there is toilet roll before taking a dump
Make sure your computer is plugged in before pressing the power switch.
When perpetuating a running joke always ensure you aren’t the fool who has taken it too far
Always ensure your beehives are kept near a first aid source
(Comments will nest below this level)
(The joke won’t run any further below this level)
There will always be someone on the internet willing to take a meme further than it’s natural life cycle.
Only the narcissistic meme.
*winks at fuzz*
When using an expired internet meme, ensure it is particularly appropriate to the thread and try to add a new or delightful twist when possible.
before indulging in a cheap hooker, make sure to borrow your dad’s condom, you don’t want to get any nasty diseases
Before borrowing your dad’s condom ensure you wash it thoroughly, you don’t want to catch the AIDs he got from your mum after she slept with ahilosu.
In Soviet Union AIDs gets you!
you’re an AIDS source.
Quality organic AIDS at that.
Not eating during the day to feel like a poor person is so very hypocrite (sorry if I failed on the spelling of that word, I’m not English).
I used to say to my muslim coworkers: Poor people don’t suddenly start eating after sundown, you know. They gave me the angry look, but really couldn’t think of anything to say.
Giving away food to poor people during Ramadan would be a win.
A friend of mine used to work with a lot of muslims. Then the company organized a barbeque. They only had pork. Now that’s a fail.
who said the only reason to fast is so you can feel like a poor person? maybe they do it to help make sure their women keep nice figures.
as a woman….I WISH! Are you kidding, we get so chubby droopy during Ramadan! Our metabolism goes crazy, our stomach shrinks, we snack all night, and wake up before sunrise to munch some more… proof that us ladies don’t just fast Ramadan to shed off a few pounds!
Oh man, I’m going through the same thing, but that’s just because I’ve got unwise eating habits and forget to eat all day.
But Adoni, you’re right in that there’s more reasons than sympathising with poor people!
This friend of yours should have taken a picture for the Failblog! Opportunity fail!
that’s actually a very small part of it.
the main motivation is to gain “God-consciousness” because every time you feel hungry or thirsty you think about why you’re putting yourself through it, and you remind yourself its for God.
secondary reasons are to relate to hunger that the poor feel, and to free yourself from worldly nourishment to give you more time for worship.
One of the purposes to fasting is to feel the SMALLEST part of what a needy person feels. One day of hunger definitely qualifies. Also, another part is to be charitable and help the needy with donations of money, food, or time.
The reason you probably got angry looks was your delivery. If you ask questions in a condescending manner (as I gathered from your post), people won’t take you seriously, or get pissed at you for denigrating their beliefs.
Religious folks give me angry looks when I make a perfectly understandable statement which they cannot argue, since the discussion always stops with: Well, that’s what I believe.
Belief is the only thing that messures itself to lack of evidence. The less evidence there is, the more faith is required, and the more it is worthy of respect. That’s not acceptable to me in any way.
Going back to my original post: I said it to someone who claimed ramadan is to feel how the poor and homeless feel. And yes, that enraged me and encouraged me to comment as I did.
That’s quite a simplistic, over-generalized and uninformed depiction of “religious folks.”
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For some people — religious and non-religious — “belief” means adopting a concept for which you lack empirical evidence. For others, however, it means opening your mind and heart to experiences that are more original and more basic than any simply made up intellectual notion.
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Some religious people are merely dogmatic about their concepts, while other religious people base their spirituality on direct, immediate experience. Buddhism is founded squarely on an insistence to question beliefs and rely only on direct experience. And that practical approach to religiousness is not restricted to Buddhism. Christian contemplatives, for example, use a different vocabulary for expressing their spiritual experiences, but they do the same empirical, “evidence-based” meditative practices.
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The whole science “versus” religion thing is very skewed. (It is quite easy to find anti-religion scientists, for instance, who make poorly informed and completely unscientific pronouncements about human spirituality.)
When I said religion, I meant institutionalized religion. I wasn’t talking about the religions of own experience.
You’re using categories that are still over-generalized. Virtually the entire Buddhist tradition, for instance, could be considered an “institutionalized religion” of “own [direct] experience.”
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You say in another post that you’re trying to make simplified statements, and I
don’t feel this is really the place to have discussions like these. But when “simplified” statements appear in a public space, and they make incorrect suggestions about deeply valued human practices and experiences, I’m prompted to point out that there are different perspectives.
Don’t confuse spirituality with religion.
As for …”It is quite easy to find anti-religion scientists, for instance, who make poorly informed and completely unscientific pronouncements about human spirituality.”, the reverse is also true. I’ll leave it to you to decide which “reverse” that I am referring to, a Rorschach moment as it were.
Facile distinctions between “spirituality” and “religion” can be comforting,
but are based ultimately on a species of conceptual cop out.
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The fact dogmatic religious people make stupid statements about “science” is merely stupid. But for otherwise intelligent scientists to make grossly uniformed and arrogantly dogmatic statements when calling “religion” grossly uninformed and arrogantly dogmatic — that’s a lot worse than stupid.
fasting is much more than just that.
it’s also about Ramadan learning compassion, and “cultivating our piety”.
and also…
“The fast of Ramadan is not about physical deprivation, it is meant to be deeply spiritual experience. In the holy Quran it is stated that the purpose of the fast is to develop a quality which in Arabic we call taqwa.”
I’ve been to quick to reply to your first post but just to reiterate what I’ve written – Islam says that fasting is to make / increase piety or God-consciousness. Islam has never say that fasting is for the purpose of feeling how the poor and hungry feel. The problem with what happened to you was that the Muslims you asked grew up with this misunderstanding. I believe that if they knew the correct reason for fasting, you’ve gotten a perfectly reasonable answer.
They do give away food to poor people during Ramadan. And its not done to feel like a poor person, it is to build discipline, patience, and to remember God. I’m not sure why your co-workers didn’t tell you this, maybe they were being polite and didn’t want to start a fight with someone who obviously doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
If you want to feel like a poor person, what works best is moving to America where everything is measured in terms of how much debt you have amassed. It’s such an important part of our culture that our own government tries to amass as much debt as possible to show us what to do with our credit cards and mortgages.
Um, actually? Ramadan’s the time that people usually pay the zakat, or offering to the poor. It’s one of the five pillars of Islam. So yeah, they give stuff to poor people. They’re also encouraged to do it at other times of the year–the more you give to the poor, the more right you get with God/Allah.
If you think about it, some poor people *do* go hungry all day and eat after sundown. Why? That’s kind of how homeless shelters are set up. In other cases you have people who were at work all day, too broke to buy lunch and they don’t get a meal until they get home. It’s not a universal experience by any means but the daily fasting isn’t far off. The idea, anyway, is to experience that feeling of hunger without dropping dead from starvation, suicide being forbidden in Islam. (Yes. Yes, it is. Believe it or not.)
There are other reasons for fasting too, such as gaining a greater spiritual awareness generally. Interesting how, say, Hindu ascetics are not mocked for doing this but it’s not OK for Muslims?
I actually had a co-worker who was muslim and who respected “Ramadan,” and was the sweetest person I knew…. Her name was Unissa… She would get up early before dawn and make breakfast/lunch for her kids and strickly follow the no-eating-rule…
Unless… She was on her “time-of-the-month-thangy,” or just plain hungry.. Or…Ok, she would just state”It was mostly for men…” And she was hungry… And, to make a long story short… There seemed to be ALOT of flexibility with this “Fasting” thing..
NO FLEXIBILTY with pork though, she didnt touch the stuff… But if she was hungry, she’d eat during the day…
Dont even get me started on when she was finding hubby’s for her 2 (16 and 18 yr olds) daughters… It didnt turn out exactly as you might have thought…
I can’t speak for your colleague’s fastidiousness for the mostpart, but I feel the need to point out that women are exempt from fasting while they are menstruating. They are, in fact, forbidden from partaking (it’s about body purity) They are expected to make up the days afterward.
In Islam you aren’t allowed to eat ‘when you get hungry’ while fasting… you fast from sunrise to sunset from food and drink. The only time either is excused is if you completely forget that you were fasting and consume something before remembering, because you are judged on your intentions. And I don’t think fasting is ‘mostly for men’; it’s required for both men and women equally, with women not having to fast while on their periods but having to make up the missed days at a later date of their choosing.
Sorry to jump in here, but the whole point of having the Pizza Lunch on the 10th of September for that particular event is that the month of Ramadan ends on the 9th. So when the fasting period is over, guess what they do. I bet you’ll never figure it out.
Yeah, they eat pizza.
WITH SAUSAGE!!!!!!!!
You were invited? Was it fun?
hi, no, the month of Ramadan doesn’t end on the 9th. It started on the 1st of September, and is ending today at sundown.
No. Ramadan began on September 1 and it’s impossible that it would have ended on the 10th because it lasts from new moon to new moon, or roughly 28 days. This class was aimed at non-Muslims and the Muslims leading it would not have expected the attendees to fast.
But, yes. Muslims do eat pizza. There is even such a thing as halal pepperoni–of course, it would not be made of pork.
@missionpants: seems your friend was taking you for a ride – fasting isn’t ‘mostly for men’. sure, they can skip it during “that time of the month” but not if they’re simply hungry…
But hey, do what you want, eh?
It is a fail, but not a FAIL.
you guys here really make it a epical wasp-fail…
(what is is it about americans that makes ‘em misunderstand any foreign culture and see dicks everywhere?)
Man, you’re a dick.
Yea, huge dick.
But he has such a tiny one.
Okay dipstick, here I go again. I should save this so that I needn’t type it yet another time.
Americans come from all over the world. We speak all languages and hold all beliefs on all subjects. We have been known to go after each others throats when there is a conflicting viewpoint and humiliate someone who looks different, but that is a habit that was picked up from the rest of the world.
If you wish to see someone who has typical American views just look in the mirror. In your case that is a sad comment, but a true one.
To put it in words that you might be able to understand: Take both hands and try to get a grip on reality.
Thus ends todays pontificating.
*clap clap clap!*
Are you trying to give me the clap?
Um…woops.
Oh! Now you’re sorry. A little late for that now isn’t it?!
A little Cipro will take care of that. Do you have that where you are?
You sound like an expert. I wonder why? *strokes chin in contemplation*
So I’m not not a (Ci) pro?
Perhaps you’re a talented amateur.
Please don’t YouTube me?!
Cipro comes in tubes?
No, it comes in trucks.
I am sorry, but the two of you sound far too knowledgeable on this.
I thought asking questions meant REQUESTING information, not already having it.
:p
YOU’RE the one with gonorrhea!!
(coyote)
Nope, you have too much background on this. You’re after details now.
(*snork!*)
And just who was clapping me? Hmmm.
I don’t sweat the details…and I never “clapped” you..although that might be a threat…
Erm…that was I. Sowwy.
Thank you! I get blamed for everything.
And I just remembered he CAN’T YouTube me, cause he has dial-up.
Just because I live in the sod cabin that my grandfather built, have light provided by tapers and rush lights and have dial-up internet access doesn’t mean that you can pick on me. I may sic my pet grizzly on you.
Excellent.
Lol, i’m a muslim but I found this funny.
In Soviet Russia the Pizza isn’t allowed to eat you during Ramadan
darqmann, you must be referring to some b-grade horror film where the pizza mutates and comes alive?
I made a pizza once at school and that’s pretty much what happened. It was bad.
yeah, and pizzas do that quite often…
You’re a Pizza
You’re a towel.
you wanna get high?
maaan, I don’t know what’s goin’ on…
Eighties Cold War comedy win!
I don’t get it.
This isn’t a FAIL.
Ramadan doesn’t mean you don’t eat anything for the whole month. You just don’t eat at daylight, retards >_> All-American, dudes … not caring about other cultures.
and the flyer says the lunch is from noon to 1pm, so that would be eating at daylight, re-retard…
haha
So what ? It’s just an event where you TALK about Ramadan and not doing it, re-re-retard o_O
but your whole point was about when you were supposed to fast, and you called americans retards because we apparently didn’t know this. but then it was pointed out that we know that but it was during the day. then you just changed the topic basically. that’s cool though.
zOMG, do you have to actually be a Muslim to get why this is so funny? LOL.
That is pretty funny actually. Muslims fast not to feel like poor people feel, else why would poor people have to fast? that makes no sense.
They fast to learn restraint, control of desires.
Yes, because according to the three desert dogma’s, you go to hell if you dare to be human.
Indulging in you desires (NOT at someone else’s expense) will get you a lot closer to god.
If I give someone a teapot, I would want them to use it and I’d be insulted if I didn’t.
I think God must feel the same way about Free Will.
He must be thinking: “Why de bloody hell aren’t they using their Free Will. Do they have any idea how much time it took to create such a thing. Blaspheming ingrates!
of course I ment: if THEY didn’t.
Sorry for the fail
Bo, your notion of religion is your own impoverished, made-up idea. I’m religious, and what you’ve said here doesn’t relate to me in the least, nor to any of the spiritual traditions I’ve taken the time to learn about.
Well, it’s not made-up. But of course, I’m not putting my real ideas out here. I’ve thought so much about it, that I could write for hours about it. And I really don’t feel like it. So that’s why I say it so symplistic. I find it funny how many people even seriously respond to it.
I would like to point out for future reference: I am never talking about people who think for themselves. I’m talking about the blind followers.
I’m religious too, you know. But i’d never demand respect for what I believe. I believe – doing that – I would take away their right to freedom FROM religion.
And to the ones who do carry out their beliefs despite if anyone likes it or not: Matthew 6:5-6
I like you.
Every traditional human culture that has ever existed has had rules about dress, behavior, marriage, kids, sex, food, and who knows what else. The Abrahamic religions depart from that only in the sense that two of them have a universalist outlook.
We only complain about Muslims because we’ve gotten so used to having no standards at all that any hint of the old way of high standards is threatening to us, which is why we make jokes about Amish people. Couple this with the fact that Americans (and Westerners in general) are still racist as hell and considering that the majority of the Muslim community are people of color and you have a formula for disaster.
But this bit of people just wandering around doing whatever the hell they feel like, this is not normal human experience. And it really has nothing to do with freedom. Being lost and rootless is not freedom. Substituting consumerism and toys for human community is not freedom. I don’t think it’s an accident that we have higher rates of physical and mental illness now that so many people have been severed from their cultural roots. I don’t know how much of it has to do with the wrath of a God, but it sure is noteworthy.
The whole notion that there can be such a thing as a “secular” society is an historical anomaly. As Dana suggests, cultures always have had over-arching social values and systems for appreciating meaning in life (which frequently get labeled “spiritual” or “religious”). A bit ironically, the U.S. self-identifies as a pre-eminent secular nation, on the one hand, but at the same time it has among the world’s highest percentage of its population who attend religious services regularly.
Better than “FISTING”!
NO FAIL!!!
Muslims can eat during Ramadam, you fools. They just do it when the sun is down.
mmmm…pizzaaaaaaa….
The lunch is at 12pm…
Potentially giving new meaning to the term “high noon”…
why?
Because they have the munchies?
This is no fail… They may eat at these times…
F(e)asting WIN!!!
Go entertain yourself
go ente…. yourself
go ……. yourself
Be Polite.
The real fail is 12 p.m. No such thing.
Buy a clock.
LOL
BuckFasting? You cant beat it!
Please tell me you can’t drink that sh*t.
Oh, Buckfast. Lovingly known as the Glaswegian Champagne.
“If it’s good enough for the monks, it’s good enough for the punks”.
*Is ashamed to admit she used to be a scummy punk*
*is ashamed to admit she drank it* *more than once*
Aww it’s not that bad taste-wise, it just has a really bad rep. here.
I had to Google (not gargle) it…I’d never even heard of it before.
I didn’t realise it was available in the US, unless dilly had it when she was over here.
Yeah, lived in Glasgow. When in Rome…
Um, actually, you’re allowed to eat from sunset to sunrise, so technically this isn’t a fail. Hahahaha.
fool it says pizza lunch….not dinner or bfast…
fail
lmao my friend ur intel fails.. its the other way around.. u cant eat from sunrise til sunset.. but who cares cuz the seminar is for non-muslims who rnt fasting so ya its still not a fail lol
…Pizza will not be served.
(pizza will not be served below this level)
if you’re already a practicing muslim why would you need to go that seminar?
so obviously that flyer was for those that do not practice Islam and and who may be curious about Islam and about why muslim’s fast during Ramadan.
So saying that there is pizza provided isn’t a fail. I’m guessing the people who are speaking at the seminar ARE muslim so of course i’m sure they didn’t eat the pizza. As it says on the flyer 10 Sept 08. Fasting started on the 1st of Sept and ended today [30 Sept].
they would need to go to the seminar because they are PRACTICING, meaning they arent really Muslim yet…. its like spring training or a scrimmage.
This is most likely from a college. I know my school had a Ramadan “Fast-a-thon” but it had a buffet and advertised “free food”. Huzzah for trying to appeal to poor college kids!
hip hip HUZZAH! lol… Ren Faire geek win!
I hope they have pepperoni!
Turkey pepperoni, perhaps.
maybe they just said pizza lunch to get people to go….
like the free hat thing
free hat
free hat
free hat
Actually, that’s a win as far as I’m concerned…unless it’s like a “cultural sensitivity” fail…
The attendees are obviously not Muslims for they would not need to learn more about Ramadan from a presentation such as this one. If the lecturer should be a Muslim what’s wrong with offering the attendees a bit of food? I believe hospitality is important in this religion. Iffy fail at best.
Win and Fail..now that’s what i call ‘Balanced’ kthxbai
Ur all dumb. Ramadan ends every day at 12 pm so they are allowed to eat in the time of 12 pm – 1 pm..
you fail cuz the fasting ends at sunset… n last time i checked.. the sun dosnt disappear at 12 p.m =]
Is the date in question even DURING Ramadan?
Thats not fail… They are allowed to eat everything in the night.
i agree with u its not a fail but not cuz of ur reason lol did u notice that the time of the seminar is 12 p.m – 1 p.m? thats not night yet =P
Wow, nobody understands that this is before the month of fasting in 2008, and that if you need to learn about it, ur probably not fasting.
SILENCE I KILL YOU
lol
lol this post is a fail
I don’t think people who know how to fast would actually go to learn how to?!
uhh this is not a fail at all lol its a fail for tryin to make it a fail.. yes it was ramadan at that day but think about it who will attend the the seminar? obviously non-muslims who rnt fasting so it wud be okay for them to eat lol and as for bacon.. okay not a big deal they can serve cheese, vegi, chicken, beef, even fish instead of bacon lol
uhm
they vast only during the day. that’s why the pizza is offered at 12 PM
duh
the fail- failed
uhm
the sign says 12 pm 1 pm
duh
vast Ninke- fail
post fail (: